Episode 3 (Spoilers)

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I don't think there was anything wrong with posting that, or even just that, particularly since you've clarified that overall you like the show a lot. I've posted all kinds of negative things and I also like it for the most part.

[Eldy]

A ROP writer encounters Twitter fandom:

[Inanna]

What? I didn’t get it.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Hidden text.

I hadn't really been on the "Halbrand is just bargain bin Aragorn" train before now, but episode 3 did its damnedest to convert me to that camp. I'd rather not see secret royalty plotlines to begin with, but Halbrand's specific anxieties about his ancestry come across as a deliberate invocation of movie!Aragorn. Nonetheless, I remain curious to learn more about his character. Did he learn to fight because of his ancestry—i.e., is/was there a faction in the Southlands trying to prepare him for greatness?—or is it something he learned by necessity because he "chafes against commonality" (or whatever Galadriel's wording was) and made a habit of getting into fights?

I wonder if this gives an indication of who Halbrand will turn out to be (e.g. a precursor of the Rohirrim)

FB_IMG_1662842880824.jpg (167.04 KiB) Viewed 3401 times

[Eldy]

What? I didn’t get it.

ElenDILF

[Eldy]

Hidden text.

I hadn't really been on the "Halbrand is just bargain bin Aragorn" train before now, but episode 3 did its damnedest to convert me to that camp. I'd rather not see secret royalty plotlines to begin with, but Halbrand's specific anxieties about his ancestry come across as a deliberate invocation of movie!Aragorn. Nonetheless, I remain curious to learn more about his character. Did he learn to fight because of his ancestry—i.e., is/was there a faction in the Southlands trying to prepare him for greatness?—or is it something he learned by necessity because he "chafes against commonality" (or whatever Galadriel's wording was) and made a habit of getting into fights?

I wonder if this gives an indication of who Halbrand will turn out to be (e.g. a precursor of the Rohirrim)
FB_IMG_1662842880824.jpg

Hmm. Do we know if that's Halbrand? I can't recall all the posters, or what others one he might be. That image is certainly suggestive of the idea you mention, though my inner purist really hopes it's not the case.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I don't know for sure that it is Halbrand but I think k it is. I'll try to see if I can find anything about that.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I was only able to find this, which doesn't identify those hands:

2 of the characters from Amazon's posters were revealed yesterday in a live stream and later on Twitter by Fellowship of Fans. Supposedly, the information comes from leaks inside the production.

Character #1 is Carine, Isildur's sister, played by Ema Horvath.

Character #3 is Pharazôn (not yet Ar-Pharazôn) played by Trystan Gravelle.

Character #8 is Elendil, played by Lloyd Owen.

Character #10 is the "meteor man" (no actor confirmed). Reportedly, the Harfoots will encounter a character that falls from space.

Character #12 is Celebrimbor played by Charles Edwards. Tom Budge was previously cast in this role but left after "creative differences" with the production.

Character #13 is Elrond, played by Robert Aramayo.

Character #14 is Isildur, played by Maxim Baldry.

Character #15 is Adar, a corrupted Elf, and not Sauron or the Witch-king as some have suggested. Adar is played by Joseph Mawle and will reportedly lead Orcs in battles against human settlements.

Character #18 is Gil-galad, played by Benjamin Walker.

Character #21 is Galadriel, played by Morfydd Clark.

Character #22 is the Dwarven queen and Durin's wife, played by Sophia Nomvete.

Character #23 is Durin, played by Owain Arthur.

Also, character #7 is Ismael Cruz Cordova (character unknown).

viewtopic.php?p=394975#p394975

[Inanna]

Finished Episode 3.

I didn’t find Elendil (ooh, I liked him & the Lore library!) as only a Captain, and nothing indicating a “noble” house that surprising. He is of the Faithful, and the Faithful are out of favor in Númenor. Makes sense (to me).

The whole harfoot tribe leaving behind Nori’s family because of a sprained ankle is just stupid. Really - no one else could help pull a cart?? Unnecessary ham-handed plot. Especially as the reasons given for the others “left behind” were incidents like wolves and landslides. Not “we are idiots who won’t lend a helping hand as soon as we start migrating.”

Other than that, I like the cloaks, carts, & headgear of the harfoots. It does make instant camouflage seem believable!

What else? Loved Númenor! The city is just beautiful. The Mediterranean influence in the colors made sense. Queen Regent is really awesome.

Am currently Reserving judgment on Galadriel.

[Eldy]

I didn’t find Elendil (ooh, I liked him & the Lore library!) as only a Captain, and nothing indicating a “noble” house that surprising. He is of the Faithful, and the Faithful are out of favor in Númenor. Makes sense (to me).

This is a fair point, and I think Elendil's role in the series makes sense on its own terms. Book!Elendil came from a family that had long kept their Faithful identity secret (a role show!Míriel seems to be inhabiting), but I've never been able to understand why they named two heirs to their noble title "Friend of Aman" and "Elf-friend" if secrecy was their goal. For that reason, I was happy to see the meaning of Elendil's name mentioned in the show; it'll be interesting to see if there's ever any mention of his father('s name).

[Frelga]

A ROP writer encounters Twitter fandom:

In replies

And is Halbrand the future Witch Dilf of Bangmar?

Cheeky, but a valid theory, IMO.

[Eldy]

[kzer_za]

So a quick breakdown of Númenor: I like it visually and Elendil’s family.

I’m neutral on the politics, it’s changed so much from the book version that it’s hard to judge at this point. I was worried they would go with “everything is Pharazon’s fault” so I’m glad they seem not to be doing that at least. I really don’t know where they’re going with Míriel’s father (still palantír?), seems really strange. But am willing to reserve judgment there. My guess is Muriel will become more elf-friendly over time and Pharazon will go the opposite.

Negative: I don’t like the sea-cult stuff, and I know I bring up the timeline a lot but I’m skeptical whether Númenor can be done justice with how much that has been rearranged.

Stuff I don’t like but isn’t specifically about Númenor: Halbrand, and I thought the way they worked the Southlands into the halls of lore (a scene which I otherwise liked) felt quite forced and awkward.

Overall I still have reservations about Númenor, including some probably inherent to the show’s structure, but there are parts I legitimately like and it’s better than my worst fears.

[Frelga]

It occurred to me that if Halbrand is a future Ringwraith, this would backfill the motivation for PJ-Aragorn for the "same blood, same weakness" nonsense. This is what happens when an offspring of a tainted bloodline takes the throne, he might think. Book-Aragorn name-dropped Isildur at every opportunity, as I recall.

Harfoots - the part where Nori's family has to go last works for me. Nori was supposed to be kicked out of the caravan for what she did, and while Sadoc managed to talk his way around that, some punishment had to be inflicted.

Per wiki, "The cast & crew have described them as several different tribes who have come together for mutual defense (explaining why different families look like different human races)." That would explain why they take secrecy and security very seriously (and also avoids the cousin problem).

But, leaving Largo to fall behind is a clear miss. Outside of the imminent danger, surely the group had some means of transporting those who can't walk. This is slightly mitigated by Poppy coming back to help them, although that seemed to be due to her friendship with Nori and not a general custom.

[Eldy]

Per wiki, "The cast & crew have described them as several different tribes who have come together for mutual defense (explaining why different families look like different human races)." That would explain why they take secrecy and security very seriously (and also avoids the cousin problem).

I can see that being how the Harfoot's migratory period began, assuming they lived a settled existence prior, but it wouldn't take that many generations living in such small groups for everyone to become related. Dylan Smith, who plays Largo, said in a pre-release interview that the Harfoots had "been displaced from the last great war". In the absence of any known wars since the end of the First Age, I think the most straightforward interpretation is that this refers to the War of Wrath (which is also the conflict the Southlanders still live in the shadow of). The show's timeline is somewhat vague, but at a bare minimum, multiple centuries have passed since that time.

I agree with your assessment of the tribe's response to Largo's injury; that bothered me much more than the response to Nori helping the Stranger.

[Stranger Wings]

Halbrand’s backstory, if that’s what it is, earned the series its first serious eyeroll from me. I could tolerate the fact that the character looked eerily like Viggo’s Aragorn, but to give him nearly copy-paste history and motivations is too much. Hoping there’s a twist.

Also, a king of men with evident darkness lurking within? Are we looking at a future ringwraith?

I liked the color palette in Númenor.

My guess is that there's a major twist...

He's either the future Witch King, or...a pre-Annatar incarnation of Sauron himself.

This isn't a repeat of the Aragorn storyline. To quote Nori, "I can feel it."

[Stranger Wings]

Per wiki, "The cast & crew have described them as several different tribes who have come together for mutual defense (explaining why different families look like different human races)." That would explain why they take secrecy and security very seriously (and also avoids the cousin problem).

I can see that being how the Harfoot's migratory period began, assuming they lived a settled existence prior, but it wouldn't take that many generations living in such small groups for everyone to become related. Dylan Smith, who plays Largo, said in a pre-release interview that the Harfoots had "been displaced from the last great war". In the absence of any known wars since the end of the First Age, I think the most straightforward interpretation is that this refers to the War of Wrath (which is also the conflict the Southlanders still live in the shadow of). The show's timeline is somewhat vague, but at a bare minimum, multiple centuries have passed since that time.

I agree with your assessment of the tribe's response to Largo's injury; that bothered me much more than the response to Nori helping the Stranger.

But the tribe didn't leave Largo behind due to his injury. The worst of the tribe (the aunties) simply grumbled about it. But Sadoc isn't having any talk of leaving him behind. They only got sent to the back of the caravan after Nori stole from and "endangered" the community.

[Stranger Wings]

There were parts of this episode I thought were the best so far (outside possibly Khazâd-dûm). Númenor was uneven (maybe I'll post more about my reservations later) but had some very good moments, especially visually. I like Elendil's family.

There were also major parts I truly hated, unfortunately. The sort-of-Hobbits just let the injured and sick and weak die and abandon stragglers? Sticking people in the back of the caravan comes across as some kind of weird exercise in social darwinism. My initial reaction is that it's one of the most thematically anti-Tolkien things ever put into an adaptation (not counting games). Possibly worse than Aragorn decapitating a messenger, even. And it's clearly a basic longstanding custom, not something done for safety in extreme circumstances. All while the Harfoots take great pride in how they care for each other. I at least liked the Harfoots as characters at first but they lost a lot of good will this episode.

The writers aren't suggesting that the"social darwinistic" elements of harfoot culture is a positive thing, though, so it's not anti-Tolkien in that sense. Just because Tolkien wrote about Morgoth torturing people doesn't imply that he was sanctioning torture. The "you will be left behind" thing is clearly not meant as something the audience should agree with, but rather, to simply show what a difficult nomadic existence they are living compared to their future, settled, agricultural existence.

Also, and I think it bears repeating: the tribe does not leave Largo behind. Largo and his partner simply express worry that they'll fall behind, and the absolute worst of the tribe (the aunties) are the only ones who seem ready to allow that to happen. But ultimately, they are only sent to the back of the caravan because of Nori's actions. Not because of Largo's sprained ankle.

[kzer_za]

“Leaving behind” doesn’t only mean leaving them in the camp, it also means abandoning them if they fall behind on trail. Nobody besides Poppy (clearly a special exception from close family friendship) offers any help and they don’t ask for help because they know they won’t get it. Largo’s wife clearly knows that if they fall behind the caravan they’ll be abandoned, and Largo’s only solution is “we’ll stay near the front” (though he seems afraid and putting on a brave face for his wife). And they are indeed very nearly left behind before the Stranger shows up - Poppy seems to be struggling with whether she should risk being abandoned too by helping them.

In this context, Sadoc putting them in the back comes off as a cruel exercise in “survival of the fittest.” More so if he knows about Largo’s injury, which my memory is hazy on but from your description it sounds like he does. Why not just give the family extra chores or something?

[Eldy]

But the tribe didn't leave Largo behind due to his injury. The worst of the tribe (the aunties) simply grumbled about it. But Sadoc isn't having any talk of leaving him behind. They only got sent to the back of the caravan after Nori stole from and "endangered" the community.

That being left behind is a serious fear for them means they consider it plausible, which implies it has happened before to other people. At the very least, it means they don't trust that their extremely small community will support them through this minor injury. That Largo wasn't told to stay behind when the caravan left doesn't mean much, if he can't be confident that anyone will help him if he falls behind once they start moving.