The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Inanna »

Eldy wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:40 pm
Eldy wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:04 pmI would not be shocked if it turns out Sauron hasn't appeared onscreen yet in any guise, but that he's been in contact with Celebrimbor behind the scenes and is the impetus behind the giant forge thing being constructed. I'm not convinced of this, but I think it's more likely than some other theories.
I see Narvi over on TORn has had a similar idea, and raises some good points I hadn't considered, especially RE: Gil-galad.
There is indication that Sauron has already wooed the elves as Annatar: both Celebrimbor and Gil-galad exhibit suspicious behavior, with the former anxious about a mysterious deadline to the point of duplicity and the latter betraying knowledge of Celebrimbor’s scheme as well as discovering evidence of Sauron’s corruption in Lindon itself.
Oh, yes. That does make sense. Especially Gil-Galad's sending off Galadriel.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Dave_LF »

I think it's clear Sauron has already worked his mischief with the elves. Quite probably GG chose to call the Sauron-hunters back because he believes he can be defeated without risk and in a final way once the rings are complete (but they have to hurry to finish before he makes Mordor). "Halbrand" could be a character Sauron created after leaving Lindon (where he wore a different guise) in order to manipulate Galadriel into doing what he wants. GG remarked that Galadriel's efforts to hunt Sauron could inadvertently aid his return; that hasn't been explained yet, but maybe he's right. I think it's significant that Halbrand hasn't actually affirmed any of Galadriel's ideas about him; he just lets her draw her own conclusions and doesn't argue (responds enigmatically if he says anything at all).

I think it would be interesting if all the characters who keep going on about destiny and how these things don't happen by accident turn out to be getting duped by Sauron into thinking exactly that (but not very Tolkien, I concede). Edit: What *would* be kinda Tolkien is if Galadriel, who is motivated by revenge, ends up being wrong about destiny, but Nori, who is motivated by kindness and the goodness of her heart, is right. For this to work, the Stranger would need to be someone like Gandalf. Then we'd have a setup where the character who sees Destiny in her own ambitions ultimately helps bring Sauron back, while the one who sees herself as Destiny's servant helps to position the anti-Sauron.

The main argument against Halbrand-is-Sauron is that we keep seeing him helpless. He also seemed sincerely upset about being goaded into unleashing the beast during the street fight.

The King of the Dead idea is an intriguing one too. I hadn't thought about that character at all with respect to this series, but it seems obvious now that he's going to have a role to play sooner or later, whether he's Halbrand or someone else.
Last edited by Dave_LF on Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Frelga »

Oh, yes. That does make sense. Especially Gil-Galad's sending off Galadriel.
I took it as the standard "the hero cannot succeed until removed from the case by superiors" plot device.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Stranger Wings »

Eldy wrote:
Eldy wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:04 pmI would not be shocked if it turns out Sauron hasn't appeared onscreen yet in any guise, but that he's been in contact with Celebrimbor behind the scenes and is the impetus behind the giant forge thing being constructed. I'm not convinced of this, but I think it's more likely than some other theories.
I see Narvi over on TORn has had a similar idea, and raises some good points I hadn't considered, especially RE: Gil-galad.
There is indication that Sauron has already wooed the elves as Annatar: both Celebrimbor and Gil-galad exhibit suspicious behavior, with the former anxious about a mysterious deadline to the point of duplicity and the latter betraying knowledge of Celebrimbor’s scheme as well as discovering evidence of Sauron’s corruption in Lindon itself.
I’ve speculated the same. The spring deadline and Celebrimbor’s nervousness indicate to me that the Ann A Tarr Foundation is already supporting/ putting pressure on the Rings project. That said, this doesn’t mean that Halbrand wasn’t in Eregion earlier, perhaps under a more elegant guise.


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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I think that Theo is Sauron.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Inanna »

That seems too... ordinary... for Sauron? And reeks too much of reincarnation. I don't the show makers will go there.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Frelga »

Yes, unless he's not really Bronwyn's son, I don't see it working.

Possibly, Theo will be a Ringwraith and Halbrand the King of the Dead.
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The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Stranger Wings »

I think Annatar has already visited Celebrimbor, and set the forge project in motion (complete with spring deadline).

Then he got on a ship for some reason (perhaps bound for Númenor), but Ulmo was aware of him, and sent Ossë to take him out (perhaps in sea wyrm form). Galadriel then stumbles upon him, thus beginning to fulfill Gil-galad’s foresight of Galadriel inadvertently fanning the flames of evil.

Galadriel unwittingly brings Sauron to the Southlands, where he seizes control of the situation (and gets Adar to submit to him), and Mordorizes the place with an Orodruin explosion.

In the meantime, Celebrimbor has completed the forge and has made a number of rings.

Sauron brings a hammer down on one specific ring, deep in the heart of Orodruin.

End season one.


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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Heliona »

I'm inclined to think that Sauron hasn't made an appearance yet on screen.

Celebrimbor and the forge - my thoughts were that he, like Aulë, just wants to create for the sake of creation.

Having said that, I think it's a bit too early to say how they are writing in Sauron's influence. The contraction of time does make it a bit more confusing (I believe that the different scenes are taking place concurrently).
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Eldy »

Heliona wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:44 pmI believe that the different scenes are taking place concurrently
Yeah, I'm in the same boat. I know there was some speculation before the series premiered that different plotlines would be set at differing points in the timeline, but I thought that'd be contrary to the showrunners' stated aim of chronologically condensing events. Galadriel's successive intersections with both Elrond's and the Númenóreans' stories seemed to me to definitively establish that those are contemporaneous, and Elrond's subsequent meetings with Celebrimbor and Durin also unite those plots. We know the Harfoot and Southlands storylines are concurrent because of Waldreg's mention of the meteor, and I see no reason to think those two are outliers to the rest of the show.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Alatar »

Its an interesting point though. They could have done like The Witcher Season One and showed us differing timelines to portray a much longer timeframe.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

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Based on the latest episode I think it's safe to assume that The Stranger is either one of the Istari (the power over beasts and trees and performing spells) or the Man on the Moon. (The camera lingers too long on the fullmoon as he gazes at the night sky and then there's a hard match-cut of the moon with the crater he fell in).

I would not like it if he turns out to be Gandalf.
I'm still going with my first instinct of him being Saruman (he uses the powers for good but there's always a sinister, almost selfish edge to them. Plus he looks a lot like a young Christopher Lee.)
I'd be fine if he turns out to be one of the Blue Wizards.


I would be very upset if this is Sauron.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Sadly, I think that he will turn out to be Sauron.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Dave_LF »

It seems significant that in E5 the Stranger has no word for death, which is something Galadriel says about the elves of Valinor right at the beginning of E1.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Dave_LF »

Has there been any speculation that there were actually several meteors? I'm watching E1 again, and if there was only one, it followed a pretty wild trajectory.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Teremia »

Voronwë, why do you think the Stranger will turn out to be Sauron? Isn't Sauron supposed to be corrupting everyone cunningly? Cunning doesn't seem to be the Stranger's forte! And he apparently WANTS to be good, even if he messes up. Plus, if a sweet-natured Harfoot says you're good, shouldn't that carry weight?
I will be so upset if he is revealed to be Sauron! Saruman, maybe--Sauron, though?? Please, no!
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Smaug's voice »

For what it's worth, among the given suspects I think the Stranger is the least likely to be Sauron. I just can't imagine any writer and Tolkien fan ever conceiving Sauron to be the guy helping Hobbits move their carts.

I think it is actually Sauron who's been wearing Celebrimbor's skin as a costume in all these scenes. :D
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Eldy »

I would be happy if ROP showed a repentant or at least still morally conflicted Sauron at the start of the series. It wouldn't even necessarily be a deviation from the books in and of itself, given how much they've mucked with the timeline. :P But I hope he's not the Stranger.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

To be clear, I don't *want* the Stranger to be Sauron (honestly, I don't want the Stranger, period). But after the Mithril/Silmaril thing, nothing will surprise me, and there seems to be a lot of signals that he is Sauron.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Eldy »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:22 pmBut after the Mithril/Silmaril thing, nothing will surprise me
True enough! :nono:
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