The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Frelga »

To the first point, it is possible that he is gaining, or regaining, an understanding of the world, including language. Less likely is that he got the meaning of the word friend from context, but I'd be willing to go with it.

To the second point, having only the proto-hobbits know of his presence is still keeping pretty secret. And safe.

But my current theory, given his falling from the stars and the way he went from being apparently self-centered to suddenly coming to the aid of his friends, is that he is actually Han Solo.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Stranger Wings »

We'll see. I absolutely and unabashedly love this storyline, and think it feels more Tolkienesque than the entirety of the adolescent Peter Jackson Action Adventure Middle Earth Cinematic Universe (PJAAMECU).
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Is it really necessary to express your admiration for this show by using irrelevant (and frankly, adolescent) insults of films that many love? 🤔

I don't at all share your liking of this storyline so far but I'm glad you are enjoying it. I'm curious if you could enunciate exactly what about it you find to be so Tolkienesque?
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Stranger Wings »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 11:46 pm Is it really necessary to express your admiration for this show by using irrelevant (and frankly, adolescent) insults of films that many love? 🤔

I don't at all share your liking of this storyline so far but I'm glad you are enjoying it. I'm curious if you could enunciate exactly what about it you find to be so Tolkienesque?
I was actually trying to be self-deprecating there (failed, I think). It was a self-parody of my own obsession with disliking the LOTR films. I just need to let it go. ;)

As for what I find Tolkienesque about it...:

Source of the Man in the Moon legend?
Eärendil in reverse
Stranger is lost like Artaxerxes from Roverandom
Hobbits aiding a wizard before wizard aids hobbits
A sacred fire
Focus on stars
Fireflies as stars
The Stranger darkening the skies and bending the trees around him is much like Gandalf's intimidation trick
The Wandering Days made real
A very particular linguistic style that's closely connected to their experience
A story of not quite fitting in
The difficult balance between parochialism and adventuring, between community and individualism
Not just a transplant of hobbits to the Second Age, but a genuine attempt at backwards-drawing what a wandering hobbit culture may have been like (which reminds me of Tolkien divining the history of words)
Joy of finding blackberries (precursor to mushroom obsession?) :)

Etc, etc.

It just has a Tolkienian spirit to it. Certainly more LOTR than Silmarillion, of course. But to me, this feels like what Tolkien may have done if he felt compelled to turn his Second Age histories into a LOTR-style series of novels. And I think that works wonders for a television show.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by kzer_za »

So someone straight up said The Stranger is Sauron this episode.

It could be more misdirection to keep people guessing, sure. He could be mistaken or lying. But if they’re ramping up to a Sauron reveal late this season (or maybe it’s gonna be s2?), it’ll probably be someone we’ve already met at the halfway point. And I doubt it’s Halbrand or Adar.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Eldy »

IIRC, a character also speculated that Adar is Sauron in episode 3. At the time, I thought this ruled out Adar, since surely the showrunners wanted to keep the mystery going longer and would throw red herrings at us, but I'm not sure. I'm not ruling out the possibility that he hasn't appeared yet in any guise, though I don't think that's the most likely option.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Heliona »

kzer_za wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:25 pm So someone straight up said The Stranger is Sauron this episode.
Not quite. They said that the star falling from the sky was a sign of his return. Not explicitly that it was Sauron.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Yes, exactly! It could have been that an early Istar was sent because of his return, for instance.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Frelga »

I don't think Adar is Sauron, unless they disposed of the idea of Annatar being fair to look at.

I think the Stranger could be Sauron, and his apparent gratitude and friendship will later be revealed as a ruse to gain the trust of people of Middle-earth and eventually Celebrimbor. If that's the case, then I would expect the show to continue with hints that he could be Gandalf, until the grand reveal.

Incidentally, we know not to spoil the show, but ought we to take any care that we don't spoil Tolkien's plot? I haven't, so far.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

As far as I am concerned, I don't think we need to worry about whether we spoil what Tolkien wrote. :?
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Stranger Wings »

It’s increasingly seeming clear to me that Halbrand is a pre-Annatar Sauron.


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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Stranger Wings wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:56 am It’s increasingly seeming clear to me that Halbrand is a pre-Annatar Sauron.
A poster at TORN called UtumnoSkirmish wrote this:
When considering the identity of Sauron I've been thinking not only about what we've seen so far, but "what has to happen" for the story to unfold.

Sauron will eventually have to aid the Elves of Eregion in crafting the rings, and in order to do that, he will first have to deceive them. He'll have to convince them not only that he is innately good and means them well, but that he has tremendous, groundbreaking "scientific" knowledge.

Halbrand can't pull this off. His story is that he's a man from the south whose home was overrun by orcs. Eregion would never accept that a mortal man is such a genius that he's ready to instruct Fëanor's grandson.
I fully agree.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Dave_LF »

Why? He’s trying awfully hard to get into the metalworking guild, and signs point to him being good at it if they’d just give him a chance…
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Inanna »

So, he becomes an ally of Sauron with his metal working knowledge and is granted the first ring.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

There's a big gap between being in a mortal metalworking guild (even in Númenor), and instructing Celebrimbor and the Gwaith-i-Mírdain.

x-posted with Inanna.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Frelga »

Inanna wrote:So, he becomes an ally of Sauron with his metal working knowledge and is granted the first ring.
Yes, that seems more plausible.

I can't recall - are we told that Khamul is the chief Nazgûl?
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Eldy »

I would not be shocked if it turns out Sauron hasn't appeared onscreen yet in any guise, but that he's been in contact with Celebrimbor behind the scenes and is the impetus behind the giant forge thing being constructed. I'm not convinced of this, but I think it's more likely than some other theories.
Frelga wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:48 pmI can't recall - are we told that Khamul is the chief Nazgûl?
Khamûl, in his very brief appearance in the legendarium, is said to have been "the Second Chief (the Black Easterling)," behind the Witch-king (UT, The Hunt for the Ring). The latter was (probably) one of the three Númenórean Nazgûl.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Stranger Wings »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
Stranger Wings wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:56 am It’s increasingly seeming clear to me that Halbrand is a pre-Annatar Sauron.
A poster at TORN called UtumnoSkirmish wrote this:
When considering the identity of Sauron I've been thinking not only about what we've seen so far, but "what has to happen" for the story to unfold.

Sauron will eventually have to aid the Elves of Eregion in crafting the rings, and in order to do that, he will first have to deceive them. He'll have to convince them not only that he is innately good and means them well, but that he has tremendous, groundbreaking "scientific" knowledge.

Halbrand can't pull this off. His story is that he's a man from the south whose home was overrun by orcs. Eregion would never accept that a mortal man is such a genius that he's ready to instruct Fëanor's grandson.
I fully agree.
That’s why I specified a pre-Annatar Sauron. I think he takes a different form in Eregion.


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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Eldy »

Eldy wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:04 pmI would not be shocked if it turns out Sauron hasn't appeared onscreen yet in any guise, but that he's been in contact with Celebrimbor behind the scenes and is the impetus behind the giant forge thing being constructed. I'm not convinced of this, but I think it's more likely than some other theories.
I see Narvi over on TORn has had a similar idea, and raises some good points I hadn't considered, especially RE: Gil-galad.
There is indication that Sauron has already wooed the elves as Annatar: both Celebrimbor and Gil-galad exhibit suspicious behavior, with the former anxious about a mysterious deadline to the point of duplicity and the latter betraying knowledge of Celebrimbor’s scheme as well as discovering evidence of Sauron’s corruption in Lindon itself.
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Re: The Stranger of Udûn? - New Info and the Identity of Meteor Man

Post by Dave_LF »

Stranger Wings wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:38 pmThat’s why I specified a pre-Annatar Sauron. I think he takes a different form in Eregion.
I note that you didn't commit to a verb tense :)
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