Why the hate on Russia?

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Beorhtnoth
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Re: Why the hate on Russia?

Post by Beorhtnoth »

N.E. Brigand wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:13 pm Here's a case where I think anti-Russian (and anti-Chinese) sentiments are being exploited:

Vaccine makers say IP waiver could hand technology to China and Russia (Financial Times)
As industry lobbying has escalated in Washington, companies have warned in private meetings with US trade and White House officials that giving up the intellectual property rights could allow China and Russia to exploit platforms such as mRNA, which could be used for other vaccines or even therapeutics for conditions such as cancer and heart problems in the future.
Oh no! If we give this information away, China or Russia might cure cancer!

(Now obviously if a Russian or Chinese institution uses technology provided to them for free by Western nations to eliminate some other disease, and then charges those nations for that life-saving information, that too would be wrong.)
There is also the crazy notion prevalent in some European capitols that the Russian "Sputnik" vaccine should not be imported because it would be a propaganda victory for Russia.

Not that the vaccine doesn't work, just that it is Russian, so "bad".
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Beorhtnoth
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Re: Why the hate on Russia?

Post by Beorhtnoth »

Suspecting how the media walk in lockstep to present a uniform narrative, I came to wondering what was the last article I read in mainstream Western media that was not negative about Russia. I couldn't recall one.

What is the last positive article on Russia you read, and do you think coverage of Russia is balanced?
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Re: Why the hate on Russia?

Post by N.E. Brigand »

Beorhtnoth wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 3:22 pm Suspecting how the media walk in lockstep to present a uniform narrative, I came to wondering what was the last article I read in mainstream Western media that was not negative about Russia. I couldn't recall one.

What is the last positive article on Russia you read, and do you think coverage of Russia is balanced?
They're rioting in Africa,
They're starving in Spain.
There's hurricanes in Florida,
And Texas needs rain.


Man bites dog. In the U.S., at any rate, if a foreign country is in the news, it's usually for a bad reason.
Beorhtnoth
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Re: Why the hate on Russia?

Post by Beorhtnoth »

N.E. Brigand wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:51 pm
Beorhtnoth wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 3:22 pm Suspecting how the media walk in lockstep to present a uniform narrative, I came to wondering what was the last article I read in mainstream Western media that was not negative about Russia. I couldn't recall one.

What is the last positive article on Russia you read, and do you think coverage of Russia is balanced?
They're rioting in Africa,
They're starving in Spain.
There's hurricanes in Florida,
And Texas needs rain.


Man bites dog. In the U.S., at any rate, if a foreign country is in the news, it's usually for a bad reason.
Does this extend to Israel and Saudi Arabia? Or Ukraine?
In a society built on deceit, telling truth is a seditious act
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Re: Why the hate on Russia?

Post by Frelga »

I didn't even hear anything positive about Russia when I was regularly watching Russian news in Russian. They only ever say how things will get better soon, and have been for the last 60 years.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

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Beorhtnoth
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Re: Why the hate on Russia?

Post by Beorhtnoth »

Frelga wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 6:34 pm I didn't even hear anything positive about Russia when I was regularly watching Russian news in Russian. They only ever say how things will get better soon, and have been for the last 60 years.
:D
I remember growing up in the UK and my parents continuously complaining that the news was always bad!

I also remember the Yeltsin years, when foreign coverage of Russia was fawning, even as the rouble fled abroad and Russian life expectancy decreased by ten years...
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Re: Why the hate on Russia?

Post by N.E. Brigand »

Beorhtnoth wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 6:13 pm
N.E. Brigand wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:51 pm
Beorhtnoth wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 3:22 pm Suspecting how the media walk in lockstep to present a uniform narrative, I came to wondering what was the last article I read in mainstream Western media that was not negative about Russia. I couldn't recall one.

What is the last positive article on Russia you read, and do you think coverage of Russia is balanced?
They're rioting in Africa,
They're starving in Spain.
There's hurricanes in Florida,
And Texas needs rain.


Man bites dog. In the U.S., at any rate, if a foreign country is in the news, it's usually for a bad reason.
Does this extend to Israel and Saudi Arabia? Or Ukraine?
The top U.S. story right now about Israel is that they bombed a building in which international media was headquartered. I struggle to remember a positive U.S. story about Saudi Arabia. And Ukraine like most of the world would be mostly ignored by the U.S. -- I really cannot overstate how much we are a self-centered nation -- if not for the conflict with Russia and for the associated machinations of the Trump administration that continues to have ramifications in our legal system.
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Re: Why the hate on Russia?

Post by Beorhtnoth »

I recognise how much the USA is inward looking, which makes its media ventures into foreign affairs that much more significant. As such, coverage of different nations is all we have to illustrate any biased editorial imperative. For example, why Alexei Navalny and not Julian Assange? Why designate Houthis, who are the indigenous Yemeni people, terrorists whilst supporting Saudi Arabian assaults on Yemen? Closer to home, why cheer Maidan revolutionaries, yet lambast the actions in Washington?
Why sanction Venezuela, but not Bolivia or Honduras? Israel? Reporting of that conflict is ALWAYS as apologetic as feasible for Israeli actions.

So, again, why Russia? Why is there a constant stream of anti-Russian invective, yet near silence on the 180+ other nations (save those "designated enemies") on the planet?
Why Russia?
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Re: Why the hate on Russia?

Post by N.E. Brigand »

Beorhtnoth wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 6:55 pm I recognise how much the USA is inward looking, which makes its media ventures into foreign affairs that much more significant. ... Why designate Houthis, who are the indigenous Yemeni people, terrorists whilst supporting Saudi Arabian assaults on Yemen?
You asked about the U.S. media, and based on everything I've seen and read here: to the degree that this country's journalists cover the war in Yemen at all, they paint Saudi Arabia as the villain.
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Re: Why the hate on Russia?

Post by Beorhtnoth »

I defer to your first hand experience. Mine is but snippets from US media that paint the Houthis as an Iranian proxy and hence, although some Saudi actions are deplored, on the whole Saudi Arabia is supported.
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Re: Why the hate on Russia?

Post by N.E. Brigand »

Beorhtnoth wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 7:02 pm I defer to your first hand experience. Mine is but snippets from US media that paint the Houthis as an Iranian proxy and hence, although some Saudi actions are deplored, on the whole Saudi Arabia is supported.
I'm sure there must be some coverage with that perspective, particuarly on conservative outlets like Fox News, but I expect many Americans, perhaps a majority of Americans, don't even realize that there's a war in Yemen, much less that one side is backed by Iran and the other is backed by Saudi Arabia.

And among American media, Saudi Arabia is reviled for its leader('s son) having ordered the execution and corpse mutilation of a U.S. journalist.

And speaking of conflicts most Americans haven't heard of:

Six months into northern Ethiopia’s shadow war, its atrocities are becoming harder to hide (Telegraph)

At this time, what's happening in Tigray is probably worse than what's happening in Palestine, but there's been almost no coverage here.
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Re: Why the hate on Russia?

Post by Beorhtnoth »

N.E. Brigand wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 6:07 pm
Beorhtnoth wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 7:02 pm I defer to your first hand experience. Mine is but snippets from US media that paint the Houthis as an Iranian proxy and hence, although some Saudi actions are deplored, on the whole Saudi Arabia is supported.
I'm sure there must be some coverage with that perspective, particuarly on conservative outlets like Fox News, but I expect many Americans, perhaps a majority of Americans, don't even realize that there's a war in Yemen, much less that one side is backed by Iran and the other is backed by Saudi Arabia.

And among American media, Saudi Arabia is reviled for its leader('s son) having ordered the execution and corpse mutilation of a U.S. journalist.

And speaking of conflicts most Americans haven't heard of:

Six months into northern Ethiopia’s shadow war, its atrocities are becoming harder to hide (Telegraph)

At this time, what's happening in Tigray is probably worse than what's happening in Palestine, but there's been almost no coverage here.
Fox News isn't transmitted in the UK...
Also, not sure you present the war in Yemen accurately. You seem to imply a grand chess game between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Iran has near zero input in Yemen. Look at a map!
As Saudi Arabia is so reviled, what sanctions are in place? Does US media demand sanctions, or is thjat reserved for "designated enemies" like Venezuela?
Ethiopia. Not quite the same pertinence as Yemen, in which the US is actively supporting Saudi Arabia's assault on the Yemeni people, is it?
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Re: Why the hate on Russia?

Post by N.E. Brigand »

Beorhtnoth wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 7:43 pm
N.E. Brigand wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 6:07 pm I'm sure there must be some coverage with that perspective, particuarly on conservative outlets like Fox News, but I expect many Americans, perhaps a majority of Americans, don't even realize that there's a war in Yemen, much less that one side is backed by Iran and the other is backed by Saudi Arabia. And among American media, Saudi Arabia is reviled for its leader('s son) having ordered the execution and corpse mutilation of a U.S. journalist.

And speaking of conflicts most Americans haven't heard of:
Six months into northern Ethiopia’s shadow war, its atrocities are becoming harder to hide (Telegraph)

At this time, what's happening in Tigray is probably worse than what's happening in Palestine, but there's been almost no coverage here.
Fox News isn't transmitted in the UK...
Also, not sure you present the war in Yemen accurately. You seem to imply a grand chess game between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Iran has near zero input in Yemen. Look at a map!
As Saudi Arabia is so reviled, what sanctions are in place? Does US media demand sanctions, or is thjat reserved for "designated enemies" like Venezuela?
Ethiopia. Not quite the same pertinence as Yemen, in which the US is actively supporting Saudi Arabia's assault on the Yemeni people, is it?
It is pretty funny that one of the very first people to get a Covid vaccination in the UK once it was approved -- even before the Queen -- was the owner of Fox News.

I despise the governments of both Saudi Arabia and Iran, but if I had to pick which nation to support, I'd choose Iran, which appears to have a freer society. Women have been treated far better there than in Saudi Arabia, for instance. (Plus there were number of superb films made in Iran. But there were also some fine films and other art produced in the Soviet Union under Stalin, one of the most bloodthirsty leaders ever.) But to say that Iran has "near zero input in Yemen" on the grounds that Saudi Arabia is closer to Yemen strikes me as akin to claiming that the U.S. had no influence on affairs in Vietnam or that the U.S.S.R. had no influence on affairs in Cuba. However, I agree with you that the malign influence of Saudi Arabia in Yemen far outstrips what Iran has been doing there. And I was pleased that the Biden administration in February announced an end to U.S. support for Saudi Arabia's offensive in Yemen, and disturbed by this report in April:

"The US may still be helping Saudi Arabia in the Yemen war after all." (Vox)

The U.S. continues to provide Saudi Arabia with defensive support, and there is some fuzziness to what constitutes defense and what constitutes offense. My personal inclinations are that we should stop that too. But I can believe that the U.S. has -- or that honest people working in the U.S. government believes the U.S. has -- valid reasons to continue supporting the Saudi government. Sometimes there are no right choices. U.S. policy from northern Africa to central Asia does look like a series of disasters. Barack Obama took a lot of heat from U.S. conservatives for failing to support the Green Movement in Iran in 2009. My view at the time was that he feared that if the U.S. government explicitly supported those protesters, that would actually drive the general public in Iran more firmly into the hands of its autocratic leadership. Later Obama was attacked by U.S. conservatives for more vocally supporting the Arab Spring, for intervening in the Libyan uprising to protect the rebels there from Gaddafi's forces (which led to the Libyan government being overthrown), and then for not trying to remove Bashar al-Assad from power in Syria.

If Obama stayed out Libya, there would have been no Benghazi attack and Hillary Clinton would probably now be in her second term as president. A good argument for the U.S. to intervene less! On the other hand, by mostly letting the Taliban do as they wished in Afghanistan, Bill Clinton and George Bush made 9/11 possible.
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Re: Why the hate on Russia?

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This thread exists, might as well use it.

Russia Warns Disney Against Distribution Of Pixar Short ‘Out’
The government of Russia has warned the Walt Disney Company against distributing one of Pixar’s shorts films in the country, noting that the film violates Russian law.

The short in question, Out, directed by Steven Clay Hunter and produced by Max Sachar, was released on Disney+ last year as part of Pixar’s Sparkshorts series. It features a lead character who is gay.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

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Jude
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Re: Why the hate on Russia?

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What does "warn" mean in this case? Are they threatening specific retaliations?
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Frelga
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Re: Why the hate on Russia?

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I don't know what they can realistically do to Disney.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

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Re: Why the hate on Russia?

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So Disney+ doesn't even exist in Russia. Maybe it's an attempt to whip up a scapegoating frenzy of some kind? I have a feeling that all this is going to accomplish is a segment of the Russian population will now want to see the film come hell or highwater and there will be pirate copies everywhere.
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Re: Why the hate on Russia?

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N.E. Brigand wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:13 pm Here's a case where I think anti-Russian (and anti-Chinese) sentiments are being exploited:

Vaccine makers say IP waiver could hand technology to China and Russia (Financial Times)
As industry lobbying has escalated in Washington, companies have warned in private meetings with US trade and White House officials that giving up the intellectual property rights could allow China and Russia to exploit platforms such as mRNA, which could be used for other vaccines or even therapeutics for conditions such as cancer and heart problems in the future.
Oh no! If we give this information away, China or Russia might cure cancer!

(Now obviously if a Russian or Chinese institution uses technology provided to them for free by Western nations to eliminate some other disease, and then charges those nations for that life-saving information, that too would be wrong.)
I can hardly roll my eyes hard enough. The Chinese are rapidly catching up with the West and Russia has been training up excellent scientists for a long time. The use of mRNA for gene therapy or vaccines is an old idea that finally got off the ground because there was a woman in Europe unwilling to give up and another group in the US insane enough to try. There're probably Russian and Chinese scientists who have been kicking themselves non-stop for over a year now because they bailed on the approach on the grounds it's too dangerous. Pretty much everyone who's worked with RNA has gotten jaded about any kind of RNA-based therapy. I still can't believe it worked and didn't kill anyone and I've had both my doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine.
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Re: Why the hate on Russia?

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This is why.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

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Re: Why the hate on Russia?

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I was thinking today about the speed and intensity of the international pile-on on Russia. It's wild. The only pariah state I can think of that's more economically isolated is North Korea. Or perhaps Afghanistan. The rage turned on with the invasion of the Ukraine but it came on so hard and fast I can't help but think that part of Russia's problem is that they've spent the past decade-plus acting like that guy at work. The one who comes up to the line and occasionally ust barely crosses it and somehow keeps getting away with crap that would get anyone else written up. And now that they've been caught red-handed, first with the obviously bad faith peace negotiations and then with the war of conquest, they've got no allies and no favors to call in. No one's going to get sympathetic to their cause, no one's going to give them any leeway, no one's going to excuse them anymore. The downside, of course, is now there's no reason for the Russian government to keep the mask up anymore, so they're dosing their population with All The Propaganda and bringing their absolute worst selves to the world stage.
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