Why the hate on Russia?

[Beorhtnoth]

I've watched with growing astonishment the vilification of Russia the pasty decade, predicated it seems on a Russian refusal to lie down and play dead as assurances regarding the extension of Nato post German reunification have been broken.
I have watched as a coup in Ukraine, utilising extreme rightwing players such as Svoboda and Right Sector (straight out of the Gladio handbook?) has been portrayed as a democratic uprising (snipers in Hotel Ukrainia ignored), and chilling vows to ethnically cleanse Russians from Ukraine studiously avoided by apologists for such as the neo-Nazi Azov battalion.

That is a sample of the misrepresented Ukrainian narrative. What of elsewhere?

In Syria, Russia halted the spread of ISIS, and only when Syrian army forces, backed by Russia, drove ISIS back to the banks of the Euphrates did the USA engage with ISIS East of the Euphrates, which incorporated the bombing of Syrian army forces as they combated ISIS on their bridgehead, also East of the Euphrates. Why? Was it to ensure US control of Eastern Syrian oilfields?

I admit, I am puzzled by the condemnation of Russian support for Syrians fighting the influx of foreign mercenaries that composed much of the "Free Syrian Army"(sic). Are Russians condemned simply because they are the designated enemy?

[Inanna]

This is how the US is portrayed outside of US too.

[Beorhtnoth]

Excuse my poor comprehension skills, Inanna, but could you expand on your statement, as I am unsure what portrayal you are referencing, and where?

Many thanks in advance, and apologies for being slow on the uptake.

[N.E. Brigand]

I've watched with growing astonishment the vilification of Russia the pasty decade, predicated it seems on a Russian refusal to lie down and play dead as assurances regarding the extension of Nato post German reunification have been broken.
I have watched as a coup in Ukraine, utilising extreme rightwing players such as Svoboda and Right Sector (straight out of the Gladio handbook?) has been portrayed as a democratic uprising (snipers in Hotel Ukrainia ignored), and chilling vows to ethnically cleanse Russians from Ukraine studiously avoided by apologists for such as the neo-Nazi Azov battalion.

That is a sample of the misrepresented Ukrainian narrative. What of elsewhere?

In Syria, Russia halted the spread of ISIS, and only when Syrian army forces, backed by Russia, drove ISIS back to the banks of the Euphrates did the USA engage with ISIS East of the Euphrates, which incorporated the bombing of Syrian army forces as they combated ISIS on their bridgehead, also East of the Euphrates. Why? Was it to ensure US control of Eastern Syrian oilfields?

I admit, I am puzzled by the condemnation of Russian support for Syrians fighting the influx of foreign mercenaries that composed much of the "Free Syrian Army"(sic). Are Russians condemned simply because they are the designated enemy?

Crimea.
Navalny.
Trump.

I don't hate Russia. But Putin is a really bad guy.

[Beorhtnoth]

Crimea? Accorded semi-autonomous status, which was reneged on by Kyiv. Crimea only became part of Ukraine for administration purposes in the Soviet Union. The Crimean populace is over 90% Russian. They chose to secede when the Ukrainian Nationalists toppled the elected President, Yanukovych, in a violent coup sponsored by the USA (Nuland's cookies?)

Navalny? A Western asset with fascist inclinations (hence not accorded "prisoner of conscience" status) who has been treated less harshly than Julian Assange. A peculiar champion.

Trump? An American citizen, ex-President, with German ancestry. Not much to do with Russia there.

How do you gauge Putin's "badness"? As bad as Barack O'bomber, who destroyed Libya?

[Frelga]

I thought the first post sounded familiar, and then I realized my mom got that forward a few months ago.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

That is disappointing to hear.

[Inanna]

Agreed.

[Jude]

What, verbatim? Or the same general gist?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Yes, that is a good question. If it is lifted verbatim (or virtually verbatim) from another source without attribution, that would be completely unacceptable

[Frelga]

I didn't mean to imply that it was copypasta, especially since I didn't keep the forward in question. It's just very in line with Russian propaganda my mom seems to attract.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Okay.

[N.E. Brigand]

Crimea? Accorded semi-autonomous status, which was reneged on by Kyiv. Crimea only became part of Ukraine for administration purposes in the Soviet Union. The Crimean populace is over 90% Russian. They chose to secede when the Ukrainian Nationalists toppled the elected President, Yanukovych, in a violent coup sponsored by the USA (Nuland's cookies?)

Navalny? A Western asset with fascist inclinations (hence not accorded "prisoner of conscience" status) who has been treated less harshly than Julian Assange. A peculiar champion.

Trump? An American citizen, ex-President, with German ancestry. Not much to do with Russia there.

How do you gauge Putin's "badness"? As bad as Barack O'bomber, who destroyed Libya?

I'm perfectly willing to entertain the argument that all U.S. presidents were bad, and that Obama is merely among the less bad. Even the presidency of Abraham Lincoln saw the mass hanging of some 38 Dakota Sioux in Minnesota who had revolted against U.S. colonial rule.

[Beorhtnoth]

Then why isolate Putin? What sets him apart? That he can be ruthless? What people don’t want their leaders to be ruthless when necessary?

Putin will defend Russia’s vital strategic interests. That’s his job.

Now, I need to return to my shift at 55, Savushkina Street...

"How do we know you are the Strider that Gandalf speaks about? ...You might be a play-acting spy, for all I can see, trying to get us to go with you."
- Sam Gamgee - "Strider"

[N.E. Brigand]

Then why isolate Putin? What sets him apart? That he can be ruthless? What people don’t want their leaders to be ruthless when necessary?

Putin will defend Russia’s vital strategic interests. That’s his job.

Now, I need to return to my shift at 55, Savushkina Street...

"How do we know you are the Strider that Gandalf speaks about? ...You might be a play-acting spy, for all I can see, trying to get us to go with you."
- Sam Gamgee - "Strider"

Did you know that Alexei Navalny is in prison because he failed to report to the parole board while he was in the hospital after Putin had his underpants poisoned?

[Beorhtnoth]

Did you know that Alexei Navalny is in prison because he failed to report to the parole board while he was in the hospital after Putin had his underpants poisoned?

I know Navalny is in prison because he failed to report to the parole board while he was in hospital in Germany. I don’t know “Putin had his underpants poisoned”. Neither do you.

I know the narrative. Navalny fell ill in Omsk, Russia. He was flown to Germany for treatment. He recovered. That part of the narrative appears incontestable. I suggest the rest of the tale, with its deadly underpants and prank calls eliciting confessions from Russian spooks, requires more forensic examination.
All rather Austin Powers, wouldn’t you agree?

[N.E. Brigand]

Did you know that Alexei Navalny is in prison because he failed to report to the parole board while he was in the hospital after Putin had his underpants poisoned?

I know Navalny is in prison because he failed to report to the parole board while he was in hospital in Germany. I don’t know “Putin had his underpants poisoned”. Neither do you.

I know the narrative. Navalny fell ill in Omsk, Russia. He was flown to Germany for treatment. He recovered. That part of the narrative appears incontestable. I suggest the rest of the tale, with its deadly underpants and prank calls eliciting confessions from Russian spooks, requires more forensic examination.

All rather Austin Powers, wouldn’t you agree?

I would not, but I do acknowledge that the official story and the real story are often not the same. Take the example of the Minneapolis police department statement issued the day after George Floyd was killed, which bears little resemblance to the facts as most people now understand them.

The thing is: I have no reason to think the Kremlin is a more reliable narrator than the Minneapolis police.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

In my only somewhat informed opinion, I think it is very roughly a tie.

[Frelga]

Kremlin is reliably unreliable. You know not to take anything they say at face value, but they are consistent enough that you learn to read them.

[Beorhtnoth]

Did you know that Alexei Navalny is in prison because he failed to report to the parole board while he was in the hospital after Putin had his underpants poisoned?

I know Navalny is in prison because he failed to report to the parole board while he was in hospital in Germany. I don’t know “Putin had his underpants poisoned”. Neither do you.

I know the narrative. Navalny fell ill in Omsk, Russia. He was flown to Germany for treatment. He recovered. That part of the narrative appears incontestable. I suggest the rest of the tale, with its deadly underpants and prank calls eliciting confessions from Russian spooks, requires more forensic examination.

All rather Austin Powers, wouldn’t you agree?

I would not, but I do acknowledge that the official story and the real story are often not the same. Take the example of the Minneapolis police department statement issued the day after George Floyd was killed, which bears little resemblance to the facts as most people now understand them.

The thing is: I have no reason to think the Kremlin is a more reliable narrator than the Minneapolis police.

I would never advise taking any pronouncement on face value, but why should you believe the Kremlin is any less reliable than the US State Department, or the Verkhovna Rada?

Would you consider the Bundesrat reliable? The German government, when forced to reply to questions in the German parliament, had to concede that it had "no knowledge" of events as described by Navalny supporters.

It would appear anti-Russian prejudice is sufficient to determine Russian guilt.