The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

For discussion of the upcoming films based on The Hobbit and related material, as well as previous films based on Tolkien's work
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Why do they put the best music after the movie is over? That's twice in a row.
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Re: The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

Post by Dave_LF »

Elentári wrote:Glorious 'pipes and some Dwarven vocals! Does sound like it might be a credits 'suite' of themes, though...
Yup. #1 is presumably Ironfoot. #2 is something new, but pretty clearly dwarven. #3 is a new take on "The line of Girion," which I think we can call "King Bard" (it also shows up in the sampler for Shores of the Long Lake). And the last one sounds related to Tauriel's theme (maybe), though it has changed.

Anyway, I reiterate what I said earlier about this score having an "Old Testament" feel to it.
Dave_LF wrote:Anyway, in the Sons of Durin clip, starting around 0:50 and continuing basically to the end of the sample, there is a sequence that strongly resembles a brassier version of the one that plays behind Théoden's pep talk on the Pelennor (The Fields of Pelennor, also at 0:50 oddly enough).
I was off-base with this. That melody does play behind the last charge of the Rohirrim (both of them, in fact), but that's always been one of those odd chinks in the motif suite, because this is the "rage" version of the nature theme--used for the ents and the moth. And the eagles. And I'm sure that's what it is here.
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Re: The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

Post by Elentári »

This is interesting...in a concert recently, Neil Finn performed a new song that he had submitted for BotFA...
Among the classics were some special moments like his new song There and Back Again, written for the final Hobbit movie but failing to make the final cut in Peter Jackson's film, according to Finn.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/enter ... mesmerise/
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Re: The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Since his song for AUJ was by far my least favorite of the songs in the M-e films, I am not disappointed by this news at all.
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Re: The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

Post by Passdagas the Brown »

Should you not reserve judgment until you hear the song? ;)
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Re: The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

No, since I probably will never hear the song, seeing as that it is not in the film, and I have little or no interest in Neil Finn.

But nice try! :clap:
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Re: The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

Post by Passdagas the Brown »

In that case, perhaps you shouldn't judge it at all?

I mean, just because I don't like Peter Jackson films very much, and just because I feel his films are riddled with nonsense, it doesn't follow that a scene that sounds stupid when described by an eyewitness, is necessarily stupid. I will have to see it to make a judgment. And if I don't see the film, I will make no judgment at all!
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Re: The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Nor am I judging it. I am simply expressing my own lack of disappointment that I won't have an opportunity to judge it, since I don't seek out works by artists that I don't particularly appreciate, like Neil Finn, or certain directors whose works are not to my taste, like Cuaron or Malick.
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Re: The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

Post by Passdagas the Brown »

But I would argue that you should only be "not disappointed by this news at all" if you have actually heard the song, and known for sure that you dislike it. Who knows? You may love it, and it might blow Billy Boyd's tune out of the water!
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Re: The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Maybe, but I doubt that it would be to my taste, regardless of how good it is. That is a significant difference between you and me. I am much more likely to conclude that something is not to my taste, rather than that it is "bad". I don't think that "Children of Men" or "Tree of Life" are bad, just not to my taste. "John Carter," on the other hand, is just plain bad (whether judged as a film or as an adaptation).
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Re: The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

Post by Passdagas the Brown »

That's not a difference at all. You're confusing semantics with substance. When I say something is "bad," I mean that it is "bad" according to my tastes. There can be no other interpretation of my position other than that, because art is entirely subjective. IMO. :)

In that sense, we are exactly the same.

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Re: The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

But if there is one thing that we have learned from Tolkien, words matter. Even if the substance is the same, I firmly believe that the message that is transmitted it different.
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Re: The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

Post by yovargas »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote:I don't think that "Children of Men"

You watched "Children of Men"?
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Re: The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Yup.
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Re: The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

Post by Passdagas the Brown »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote:But if there is one thing that we have learned from Tolkien, words matter. Even if the substance is the same, I firmly believe that the message that is transmitted it different.
Agreed. Though there's a very simple explanation. I occasionally get lazy, and don't write "IMO" or "to my taste." But I'll try to maintain the standard going forward!

To be honest, I don't think anyone can ever make a sound argument for why a piece of art is objectively bad. Even John Carter of Mars, or the legions of, IMO, crappy straight-to-DVD movies. They just don't meet a lot of critical criteria, and that's that. There is really no such thing as art being objectively "bad." I don't believe that, and you don't believe that. So we're on the same page.
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Re: The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

Post by Passdagas the Brown »

yovargas wrote:You watched "Children of Men"?
Voronwë the Faithful wrote:Yup.
Hidden text.
What did you think of the long shot of the baby being escorted off the battle field?
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Re: The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

This isn't the place to discuss Children of Men, but I will say that my only real impression of the film is that I found it so relentlessly dreary and depressing that the themes of hope and faith overcoming all failed to make much impression on me.
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Re: The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Passdagas the Brown wrote:
Voronwë the Faithful wrote:But if there is one thing that we have learned from Tolkien, words matter. Even if the substance is the same, I firmly believe that the message that is transmitted it different.
Agreed. Though there's a very simple explanation. I occasionally get lazy, and don't write "IMO" or "to my taste." But I'll try to maintain the standard going forward!.
To be clear, I don't think adding "IMO" makes that much difference, when it is clear that the opinion that you are expressing is that the film/song/picture/etc. is objectively bad, rather than that it is something that is not to your taste.
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Re: The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

Post by Passdagas the Brown »

That cannot be "clear," as I don't believe it. About any art. As I said, art cannot be objectively good or bad. If that's how you interpret my comments, I will be sure to make my points clearer in the future.

As to Children of Men, the ending alone makes a strong point about hope (and life) overcoming despair (and lifelessness).
Hidden text.
The implication is that they deliver the baby to the ship, and life continues. Subtle, perhaps, amid so much dreariness. But IMO, very Tolkienian and "eucatastrophic." Amid such barrenness and despair - when all hope seems foolish - a child is born, carried through horror, and delivered to the faithful (who have not forgotten what it means to be human). Frankly, for me, it's more Tolkienian than almost anything in PJ's films, barring the scenes on Mt. Doom, which I think PJ got just right, and a few other moments of sheer cinematic wonder, which I'll actually always be grateful to PJ for.
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Re: The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I don't think it is all that subtle; it is pretty clear that that is what is attempted to be expressed, at least to me (although of course having heard about the film before seeing it certainly may have influenced how obvious it seemed to me). It just didn't work for me. I think it probably is a very good film. Just not to my taste.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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