The 2008 Presidential Campaign: Part Three

Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:46 am

hal, this is America. Part of America is freedom of speech, even if that speech is racist. Wright doesn't bother me because I, as a defender of free speech, defend his right (PUN) to spout racist things about me (as a white man). Voltaire said it best: I don't agree with what you say, but I defend to the death your right to say it. I don't understand how folks on the conservative side can wave their flags and be against freedom of speech. Anyone can and should be allowed to speak their mind no matter how it might offend someone else.

Post by **halplm** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:50 am

Yes, you're free to be a racist, and you're free to say racist things, all day long. But I personally don't want the president of the US to be a racist, or agree with any racist thing their pastor of TWENTY YEARS says.

So, yeah, he can say it, but I want to hear Obama admit he heard it, and condemned it at the time he heard it... if he did... which he probably didn't, which is why it's relevant.

Post by **ToshoftheWuffingas** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:52 am

He probably knew the right people, who knew the right people, who wanted to get his political career off to a great start.

Again, if he got in on merit, why would he hide his grades?

Given he's hiding his grades, isn't it more likely that he got into Harvard by knowing the right people? Oh, and lets not forget he's black, which gives him a leg up on white people.

but if it then comes out that someone greased the wheels for him to even get into Harvard. If his political career was starting there, it's yet another peice of mystery about how he got to where he is so quickly.

I think it is because he has been runnign for president for 20 years, and he has had people helping him that I do think are evil men, and he has been able to get where he is too quickly with not enough scrutiny, and it baffles me.

Your words. I can choose to think what I like when I read them.

Post by **halplm** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:54 am

you're even allowed to call me a racist straight out if you want, It's been done before.

Granted, it's cherry picking things out of what I say to present a disgusting label in an unfounded attempt to personally attack me, but that clearly doesn't matter.

Post by **River** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:55 am

hal, you're the one making the insinuations that Obama didn't desrve to go to Harvard and only got in through affirmative action and connections. Either back them up or back away, but don't be upset if people are seeing the ugliness in the things you've written.

Post by **halplm** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:57 am

I didn't say he didn't deserve it. I only said he refuses to show us somethign as simple as his grades. They can't hurt him unless he's lied about them, and so they can only help... unless he's lied about them.

Which means he's lied about them.

What can one infer from that... a whole lot, and it doesn't take a racist to infer he might have had an easier time of it than his grades allowed.

It does take a stretch to label someone that thinks that as a racist... at least usually it does... but not here.

Post by **yovargas** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:03 am

Okay, hal, how about this. What evidence do you have that Obama "refuses" to release this info? Given your posts, I'm assuming he hasn't. That's very different from "refusing" to do so. What evidence do you have of the latter, as opposed to the former?

Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:04 am

What will Obama showing his grades prove?

Are you calling Obama racist because his former pastor is?

Post by **halplm** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:08 am

He's been asked to (or his campaign, I doubt someone wanting to ask such a bold question could get to him), and he refused.

The only public information is that he did NOT graduate with honors.

http://www.nysun.com/new-york/obamas-ye ... ery/85015/

Post by **ToshoftheWuffingas** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:10 am

That presumes Wright is racist of course. I haven't seen any of Wright's stuff but I get the feeling that grumbling about white oppression is racist to some people.

Post by **halplm** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:10 am

TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:What will Obama showing his grades prove?

Are you calling Obama racist because his former pastor is?

It will prove he is not hiding anything.

And I am not calling Obama a racist. But I know he says he went to a church that was essentially preaching racism for 20 years. I wouldn't put up with that. I want to know why Obama did. And I want to know why he was so close to his racist pastor. And I want to know he denounced those statements and opinions of his pastor long before he was forced to while running for president.

Post by **halplm** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:11 am

ToshoftheWuffingas wrote:That presumes Wright is racist of course. I haven't seen any of Wright's stuff but I get the feeling that grumbling about white oppression is racist to some people.

He also hates America, btw. But I'm sure that's just my racism talking.

Post by **ToshoftheWuffingas** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:14 am

Well you know if my people had been lynched and humiliated and refused the vote and kept apart and kept poor and despised, I might just feel a bit snippy about it.

Post by **Holbytla** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:14 am

More is known about Mr. McCain's experience at the United States Naval Academy, where he was a self-described troublemaker and graduated in the bottom 1% of his class. The McCain campaign has declined to release his transcript, saying that his performance at the academy can only be viewed in the context of his larger military career.

Post by **halplm** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:16 am

ToshoftheWuffingas wrote:Well you know if my people had been lynched and humiliated and refused the vote and kept apart and kept poor and despised, I might just feel a bit snippy about it.

Yeah, blaming your problems on what happened to "your people" decades and centuries ago, on white people... that's healthy for your audience.

Post by **halplm** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:19 am

Holbytla wrote:
More is known about Mr. McCain's experience at the United States Naval Academy, where he was a self-described troublemaker and graduated in the bottom 1% of his class. The McCain campaign has declined to release his transcript, saying that his performance at the academy can only be viewed in the context of his larger military career.

Yes, this is true, and if McCain was basing his political career and thus qualifications to be president on what his grades got him, then that might be relevant, although claiming to be at the bottom 1% and a troublemaker, seems to make it someone moot.

But personally I don't care about McCain's grades at the naval academy, and if someone wants to base that as their reason for not voting for him, more power to them... I can give them a lot of reasons not to vote for McCAin.

Post by **yovargas** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:23 am

You talk like a man who already knows the truth and therefore needs no evidence.

Post by **Túrin Turambar** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:23 am

Am I the only person who finds a whole lot of controversy over what grades these people got at university absurd? I certainly hope nobody judges my fitness for important jobs in my later career based on my academic results.

Post by **halplm** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:26 am

Yes, that arguement has been made, and if you never base your career on academic achievement, then you'll likely be safe.

Yov, the most important point I've been trying to make, is that I DON'T have the truth, and am thus forced to speculate on WHY.

It's easy to fix, but won't be.

Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:26 am

So, McCain's refusal is okay, but Obama's isn't? I don't recall seeing any Obama "I got good grade" ads.

hal wrote:He also hates America, btw. But I'm sure that's just my racism talking.

Watch yourself on that slippery slope. Making that claim about another person smacks of McCarthyism.