The 2008 Presidential Campaign (was Obama Phenomenon 2)

[Jnyusa]

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[Voronwë the Faithful]

I certainly don't think claiming credit for a bill that one introduced is "padding the resume". People don't care what committees someone is on; they care about what they have done.

Meanwhile, McCain's explanation for his "surge" comment is fairly consistent with soli's comments. He explains that when he says "surge" he is including the whole counter-insurgency strategy, and adds the same point that soli made that the strategy would not have worked in the long run without the extra troops. I think that is a reasonable explanation of his comment.

What I am less accepting of is the comment that he has repeated several times in the last few days to the effect that Obama is purposefully willing to "lose the war" in order win the election. It is one thing to claim that your opponent is wrong about the issues and that his policies would therefore be potentially dangerous. It is something else altogether to attribute that kind of nefarious motives to your opponent. It is exactly the kind of campaign tactic that McCain claimed he would not engage in.

[solicitr]

Well Vor- I don't think there's much question that up until quite recently Obama, and Murtha and Boxer and Pelosi and Reid and and and, were perfectly willing to lose the war. Obama sponsored legislation which if passed would have mandated that outcome.

"Why?" is another question.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

soli, it is a question of having a different definition of success and failure. Certainly you and I differ greatly in our respective opinions about the Iraq war, but neither of us thinks that the other is morally deficient, just wrong.

[solicitr]

True enough, Vor, but whatever our respective definitions, it must be agreed that the situation is closer toward the 'success' side of the balance than it was 16 months ago. Actually, 16 months ago it was threatening to peg the 'failure' meter. An immediate pullout would have locked in failure- by anybody's definition. But Obama was cool with that. I think that's significant.

[halplm]

It's not his bill, it's a bill related, in part, maybe sort off, to a bill he introduced a year ago.

hal, you are quoting, from the link I posted, the response of a McCain campaign person to the congratulations given to Obama for the passage of this bill through the Senate Committee.

When you are repeating the words of someone else, it's helpful to cite the source. That way, if they turn out to be laughable, it won't be on you.

I was not quoting, I was echoing, because it is an opinion I share.

I don't mind Obama celebrating the movement of the bill out of the committee, but he was also clearly trying to take credit for it, which is far from the truth.

[Jnyusa]

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[sauronsfinger]

When I was in the sixth grade, the 1960 presidential eleaction was going on. I attended a Catholic school and every single nun thought that Kennedy sat just to right of God himself. My favorite subject was Social Studies and we studied that election inside and out as much as a 6th grader could. I loved it. And that love of elections and campaigns has never left me. When I taught for 34 years, my favorite years always were the election years. I devoured Ted Whites books and anything I could find about past elections. In 1972, I was director of McGoverns campaign in my congressional district and a delegate to the Miami national convention. I simply love elections.

In those past 48 years, I truly cannot remember one candidate making a statement about his opponent that is as bothersome as the McCain comment saying that Obama is willing to lose the war to win his own election.

This comment is way over the line and is by definition scurilous. It is indecent. It is offensive. It is insulting.

Senator John McCain is implying that Senator Obama is willing to see stacks of body bags come back to these shores, each with a US soldier inside, as long as he wins the election. McCain never uses the words traitor, treason or sedition. He does not have to. When you accuse another of wanting the other side to win so you can advance you own personal agenda, those words implicitly hang out there like the largest moon of the year.

Many observers of politics, including myself, have been afraid that this campaign will get very ugly before November. The question of race seemed the logical focal point. But now we have this charge, this allegation, this accusation.

And just how will John McCain support this audacious claim of his? He has not, and will not cite one such statement that Obama himself has made. Because Obama has not made such a statement. It will be the tired and old cliched "well, thats the way it seems to me". Or "thats certainly the way it looks". Or maybe he will even trot out some garbage that Senator Obama does not support the troops and if you do not support them you are against them. And if you are against them you must be for the other side.

This is absurd in the extreme. In 48 years of closely watching presidential elections I cannot remember a more irresponsible statement by one candidate of the other candidate.

This is now Week One of the 2008 version of Swiftboating. Swiftboating on steroids. Obama should respond quickly, fervently, and loudly. This kind of attack should be shot down faster than an enemy missle heading for the capital.

It is disgusting.

[yovargas]

It's not his bill, it's a bill related, in part, maybe sort off, to a bill he introduced a year ago.

hal, you are quoting, from the link I posted, the response of a McCain campaign person to the congratulations given to Obama for the passage of this bill through the Senate Committee.

When you are repeating the words of someone else, it's helpful to cite the source. That way, if they turn out to be laughable, it won't be on you.

I was not quoting, I was echoing, because it is an opinion I share.

Things like that aren't "opinion", they're either true or false.

The reason: both candidates have identified entirely different critical sectors of the economy and designed options that address entirely different problems, all of which problems the students considered legitimate and urgent. We discussed together the interdependence of the sectors addressed by these policies and decided that the two competing policies would work most effectively if they were implemented together.

That's fascinating!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Yes, it is. Your students are lucky to have such a dedicated teacher, Jn. And you are blessed with the best thing a teacher can have; students who actually think!

[solicitr]

If only Congress and the National Committees would pay attention to your students, Jny! Poll after poll show that the public want both parties to stop scoring cheap points off one another and indulging in showboating obstructionism, and actually work together. It's no accident that Congress has its lowest approval rating in the history of polling- lower even than Bush.


Both candidates are talking about bipartisanship- but do they mean it? And will the Hill play ball?

Addendum: I do think that Obama was at the very least puffing up his connection to the bill. It's interesting that according to polls, American Jews overwhelmingly favor Obama (like most Democrats)- but that isn't the case at all among Israelis, and I suspect Obama was trying to spin up the one bit of his legislative record which could be interpreted as pro-Israel.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Just by the way, so far in this campaign I have paid no attention to what Senator Obama's campaign has to say about Senator McCain nor to what Senator McCain's campaign has to say about Senator Obama.

It's a good thing that you aren't paying attention to what the McCain camp is saying about Obama, Jn, because if you were, you would see that they put out a press release yesterday trying to use Obama's comments when he visited Yad Vassem:

Obama on Genocide

Obama today at Yad Vashem:

"Let our children come here and know this history so they can add their voices to proclaim 'never again.' And may we remember those who perished, not only as victims but also as individuals who hoped and loved and dreamed like us and who have become symbols of the human spirit."

Obama on July 20, 2007:

Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said Thursday the United States cannot use its military to solve humanitarian problems and that preventing a potential genocide in Iraq isn't a good enough reason to keep U.S. forces there.

"Well, look, if that's the criteria by which we are making decisions on the deployment of U.S. forces, then by that argument you would have 300,000 troops in the Congo right now -- where millions have been slaughtered as a consequence of ethnic strife -- which we haven't done," Obama said in an interview with The Associated Press.

Beyond the fact that this is a complete distortion of Obama's position, the fact that the McCain camp would have the gall to try to use a visit to Yad Vassem for political purposes is more than infuriating to me, as a Jew who lost most of his family in the Holocaust. I'm sorry, but that is just plain wrong. I am frankly amazed that John McCain allowed something like that to be put out in his name.

[solicitr]

Agreed, Voronwë- and beyond offensive, it's just plain dumb. Trying to connect the two comments is a ridiculous stretch.

Far better would have been (not in the context of Yad Vashem) to focus on what Obama's approach will be toward Iran and its plans for Holocaust Mk II.


McCain just isn't running a very good campaign.

[Jnyusa]

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[Frelga]

I think any invocation of Holocaust in a campaign would be of poor taste, an equivalent of Godwin's Law, and very likely to backfire. Although I would find it acceptable if a campaign asked a question about handling relationships with the avowed enemies of our avowed allies.

In regards to the comment that was actually made - I am confused. Obama is saying that if military decisions were driven by preventing genocide or humanitarian crisis, then Congo presents a much more pressing problem than Iraq. Yad Vashem aside - what, exactly, is their problem? I am going by direct quote, mind, rather than by the quote-free blurb which could be creative interpretation, for all I know.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

It's really rather remarkable, Frelga. As solicitr said, it just plain dumb, trying to connect those two comments, for exaclty the reason that you say. But at least we all agree.

Another remarkable thing is that apparently someone actually had the nerve to remove the prayer that Obama left in a crack in the Western Wall in Jerusalem and sell it to an Israeli newspaper, which had the further nerve to publish it.

Israeli newspaper publishes Obama's private prayer

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Meanwhile, did anyone else watch Obama's speech in Berlin? I thought it was a fascinating exercise in "appearing presidential". To the extent that that was what he was trying to do, I think he succeeded. What do others think?

It is interesting to note that despite all of the attention that Obama has gotten recently, the most recent polls in swing states such as Michigan, Colorado, Minnesota and Wisconsin. Another poll shows that while Obama has made great strides in attracting the Hispanic supporters of Hillary Clinton, he has had less success in attracting her white, mostly working-class supporters. I wonder if this is an indication of those white working class voters not being impressed with Obama's overseas trip, whether it reflects agreement with McCain's strong criticism of Obama, or whether it is simply a reflection of the usual ups and downs of the campaign.

[Faramond]

I think it's noise. Obama is up about 4-5 points nationally, no matter what some outliers might say. A lot of silly stuff goes on now, but little of it means anything.

[Inanna]

Another remarkable thing is that apparently someone actually had the nerve to remove the prayer that Obama left in a crack in the Western Wall in Jerusalem and sell it to an Israeli newspaper, which had the further nerve to publish it.

Israeli newspaper publishes Obama's private prayer

I am saddened, but unsurprised. I think every celebrity is probably aware of this possibility, and would write fairly normal messages. How sad. If they really do believe its a letter to God, they should be able to express themselves.

[halplm]

If anyone thinks Obama's visit to the Wall was anything but a stunt, including the prayer he knew would get leaked... I don't know what to tell you...

And the swing states are moving away from Obama, because he is proving to be not what he claimed.

The trip may play well around the world, but it's not been playing well here.