Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell and Piranesi

[RoseMorninStar]

Rose, I don't think that Stephen Black is the Raven King and I don't recall ever thinking that, though I can't swear to it. Is there a quote where I said that?

Page 3 (you quote/answer MaidenOfTheShieldarm). I removed the spoiler space from the original quote.

***SPOILERS****

As for the prophecy, your comment on its specificness got me thinking. The Nameless Slave clearly refers to Stephen, but Uskglass was also the Nameless Slave. Stephen becomes a King in Faerie, while Uskglass becomes King in England. The Raven King has a black bird for his emblem, while Stephen is black. They are both out of their element where they grew up. I wish I hadn't lost those posts, there were so many more similarities that I can't recall. I feel like I should be going somewhere with this, but I'm not sure where.

Its quite obvious; Stephen Black IS the Raven King. (And yes, I am serious)

Different post, again on page 3, spoiler space removed:

I actually read it through a second time. Its a long time since I've reread a book less then two months after finishing it the first time. Of course, I have had more time on my hands recently.

(Spoiler space removed)


I still think that Stephen Black is some kind of alter ego of the Raven King's. There are just too many references to them by the same name (e.g., the Black King, the Nameless Slave, etc.) And the words of the prophecy to seem to refer to both of them alternatively (I don't have the book in front of me, so I can't quote exactly). I recognize that they are two separate men, but it seems clear to me that Stephen is somehow a reflection of or extension of John Uskglass.
(...)

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Well, I can't remember what I thought last week, let alone 17 years ago!

However, my clarification in the second post isn't too far off from what I still think. Stephen is not the Raven King, but his ascension is part of the ongoing spell that the Raven King is conducting (just as I believe that the Eternal Darkness that is imposed on Strange -- and by extension, Norrell -- that ostensibly was created by the Gentleman was actually part of the Raven King's spell).

[Dave_LF]

Rose, I followed your example and went back and reread some of the earlier posts in this thread. It's very weird reading my posts from almost 15 years ago--not only do I have no memory of the "Jesus' crown of thorns was made from hawthorn" traditional belief that I mentioned, I don't even remember that I once knew something like that! But I said it so confidently, I guess it's probably true . If my memory of my own words has faded that much, I have to assume my memory of the book has as well, and I could probably enjoy it all over again.

[Jude]

I've forgotten almost everything about Piranesi. I think I need to get myself a copy, instead of borrowing again from the library.

[RoseMorninStar]

My memory is pretty bad as well, however it's funny how often someone will ask me how I remembered a particular odd thing/event. Certain things must stick in our minds (while others fall out)

I can't figure out how the Raven King has survived so long. His curse/prophecy, yes, but physically he's human. He ruled for 300 years and, if he is still present (in any form) by the end of the book in 1817 he'd be over 700 years old. The only thing I can figure is that humans do not age in Faerie and perhaps that accounts for his disappearances.


Perhaps after I re-read JS&MN I'll give Piranesi a read.

[Alatar]

The BBC Mini-series is very well done I thought, in case you want to check that out also.

[RoseMorninStar]

I watched (a very poor recording) of the first episode on YouTube. I may look for the series after I've finished re-reading the book.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I also thought the BBC series was well done.

If you haveany interest in reading my paper on JS&MN and Tolkien it is at:

A Modern Fairy-story: Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell Seen Through the Prism of Tolkien’s Classic Essay

[RoseMorninStar]

Thank you V. I can't imagine writing a scholarly paper.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Guarding the Fairy Road


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[Inanna]

Whoa! That’s perfect.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I thought so!

[RoseMorninStar]

Crows are fascinating and so very smart.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

While I'm not 100% sure, I believe it is a raven not a crow. Merlin agrees with me.

[RoseMorninStar]

I don't think I've ever seen a raven in our area, they prefer to stay further north. Both are intelligent birds.

[Inanna]

Def a Raven. It’s guarding the fairy road.