Roe v Wade has been overturned. How do you feel about that?
Re: Will Roe v Wade be overturned? How do you feel about th
Romania & US are considered classic real-life experiments about the impact of legal abortion on crime rate etc.
'You just said "your getting shorter": you've obviously been drinking too much ent-draught and not enough Prim's.' - Jude
Re: Will Roe v Wade be overturned? How do you feel about th
Old Soviet poster saying that abortion is harmful and it is better to prevent a pregnancy than to abort it. Which is a great deal more logical than the conservative approach, which restricts access to contraception while criminalizing abortion.
As far as I know, in Soviet times abortion was available and kept between a woman and her doctor. Although I'm sure individual experiences varied.
As far as I know, in Soviet times abortion was available and kept between a woman and her doctor. Although I'm sure individual experiences varied.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
Re: Will Roe v Wade be overturned? How do you feel about th
Rose, I remember Nicolae Ceaușescu. That was horrible what happened under his regime.
When the night has been too lonely, and the road has been too long,
And you think that love is only for the lucky and the strong,
Just remember in the winter far beneath the bitter snows,
Lies the seed, that with the sun's love, in the spring becomes The Rose.
And you think that love is only for the lucky and the strong,
Just remember in the winter far beneath the bitter snows,
Lies the seed, that with the sun's love, in the spring becomes The Rose.
- RoseMorninStar
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Re: Will Roe v Wade be overturned? How do you feel about th
He was a horrible man and it was a horrible regime. Romania's Orphan HistorySunsilver wrote:Rose, I remember Nicolae Ceaușescu. That was horrible what happened under his regime.
We had seriously considered adopting a child from Romania, and so became acutely aware of what had happened. We sent a lot of toys & whatnot (a large refrigerator box full) to the orphanages but after the HIV/AIDS outbreak and the discovery that many of the children had developmental issues due to the lack of care & interaction, international adoptions were closed in 2001. We have neighbors who adopted one child from Russia, another from Romania. They were able to do since they are a Doctor & Nurse went over to those countries volunteering their services for periods of 6 months in each country. Both children (now adults) have issues. Truly heartbreaking for thousands and thousands of children & families.
This is an area where I just think the government should tread extremely lightly or stay out of altogether. There are other ways of reducing abortions/respecting life, but it seems we are hellbent in reducing/doing away with all of the programs that do just that. Helping those in crisis pregnancies. Financial aid. Affordable housing. Health care. Contraception and sex education. We in the US don't view families and children as an investment in our future but as bargaining chips that can be neglected. *sigh*
My heart is forever in the Shire.
Re: Will Roe v Wade be overturned? How do you feel about th
The Romanian orphanages became an unfortunate large-scale natural experiment in the effects of neglect on infants. And the thing is, the Romanian regime took a stab at providing social support to expecting mothers. But nothing good comes of sticking laws up people's genitals.
In 1989, when Communist governments in Europe were dropping like flies, the only country to experience a violent revolution was Romania. Ceausescu and his wife were executed by firing squad. A large fraction of the revolutionaries were born during the time of Decree 770. If I was required to see a gyno every month to verify I wasn't sneaking birth control or something I'd get violently ****ed off too. Anyway, there's a pretty unsparing Romanian movie about what it was like to be a young Romanian woman in the 1980's: 4 Months, 3 Weeks, and 2 Days.
In 1989, when Communist governments in Europe were dropping like flies, the only country to experience a violent revolution was Romania. Ceausescu and his wife were executed by firing squad. A large fraction of the revolutionaries were born during the time of Decree 770. If I was required to see a gyno every month to verify I wasn't sneaking birth control or something I'd get violently ****ed off too. Anyway, there's a pretty unsparing Romanian movie about what it was like to be a young Romanian woman in the 1980's: 4 Months, 3 Weeks, and 2 Days.
When you can do nothing what can you do?
Re: Will Roe v Wade be overturned? How do you feel about th
This article proposes that the four liberal justices were too afraid to vote to hear this case, fearing the outcome, so this atrocious law will stand. I would rather they had tried and failed than not tried, because I think this particular issue needs to be publicly aired.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... l-law.html
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... l-law.html
Avatar photo by Richard Lykes, used with permission.
Re: Will Roe v Wade be overturned? How do you feel about th
So Depressing. The damage Trump’s legal appointees will do to the fabric of this country, will persist for years.
'You just said "your getting shorter": you've obviously been drinking too much ent-draught and not enough Prim's.' - Jude
- RoseMorninStar
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Re: Will Roe v Wade be overturned? How do you feel about th
Decades. The rest of some of our lifetimes.
My heart is forever in the Shire.
Re: Will Roe v Wade be overturned? How do you feel about th
The eternity that people who will die because of this will remain dead.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
- Túrin Turambar
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Re: Will Roe v Wade be overturned? How do you feel about th
Poland's Constitutional Court has ruled that abortion is unconstitutional except in cases of rape or incest, or where the mother's life is at risk. The judges who made the ruling where appointed to the court by the socially-conservative Law and Justice Party following a legal brawl a few years ago (which, in fairness to Law and Justice, they didn't start). But it's a reminder that the Party means business.
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Re: Will Roe v Wade be overturned? How do you feel about th
Sounds familiar (in advance). [Actually, in the U.S. abortion won't be ruled to be illegal throughout the whole country, it will just be left to the states to do so, and many or most will.]
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Re: Will Roe v Wade be overturned? How do you feel about th
Apparently the big change is that now Polish women will be forced to carry to term a pregnancy in which the fetus is so malformed that it will not survive outside the womb. Like anencephaly, in which the fetus lacks most of the brain and skull.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
- Túrin Turambar
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Re: Will Roe v Wade be overturned? How do you feel about th
Yes, abortion was previously permitted in the case of fetal deformity, but isn't now.Frelga wrote:Apparently the big change is that now Polish women will be forced to carry to term a pregnancy in which the fetus is so malformed that it will not survive outside the womb. Like anencephaly, in which the fetus lacks most of the brain and skull.
Re: Will Roe v Wade be overturned? How do you feel about th
Assholes.
'You just said "your getting shorter": you've obviously been drinking too much ent-draught and not enough Prim's.' - Jude
Re: Will Roe v Wade be overturned? How do you feel about th
Sadly that will be the case. For those who want an abortion, women who live in illegal states and have means to travel to a legal state will do so, while women who don't have the means will seek out illegal underground abortion providers that will be unregulated. That was the way it was before Roe v Wade.Voronwë the Faithful wrote:Sounds familiar (in advance). [Actually, in the U.S. abortion won't be ruled to be illegal throughout the whole country, it will just be left to the states to do so, and many or most will.]
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
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- elengil
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Re: Will Roe v Wade be overturned? How do you feel about th
I'm more worried about 'illegal' states prosecuting women who travel to get one.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Re: Will Roe v Wade be overturned? How do you feel about th
Actually prosecuting someone for having an abortion is actually much harder than it sounds, because the state needs to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the abortion actually happened and wasn't for an allowed reason. For example, my home state of Queensland had anti-abortion laws on the books until very recently which hadn't actually been used since the 1980s (with one exception). Doctors would not provide the evidence, and because of it, prosecutors could not justify starting prosecutions they were almost certain to lose. This is something the pro-life side often overlooks.
- elengil
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Re: Will Roe v Wade be overturned? How do you feel about th
If it's illegal in a state, it is entirely possible for the state to charge the woman with something because there is no 'allowed' reason. Now, whether it'll hold up in court or on appeal if it was actually done in a state where it *is* legal, that's another matter entirely. But I wouldn't put it past any anti-abortion state to try.Túrin Turambar wrote:Actually prosecuting someone for having an abortion is actually much harder than it sounds, because the state needs to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the abortion actually happened and wasn't for an allowed reason. For example, my home state of Queensland had anti-abortion laws on the books until very recently which hadn't actually been used since the 1980s (with one exception). Doctors would not provide the evidence, and because of it, prosecutors could not justify starting prosecutions they were almost certain to lose. This is something the pro-life side often overlooks.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
- RoseMorninStar
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Re: Will Roe v Wade be overturned? How do you feel about th
I went back and read the first couple of pages of this thread. 2005! Lots of interesting discussion, some from those who are no longer with us.
My heart is forever in the Shire.
- Túrin Turambar
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Re: Will Roe v Wade be overturned? How do you feel about th
Queensland didn't have any exemption, but there's a provision in the Queensland Criminal Code which lets you plead a defence of medical necessity to any offence (e.g. stealing medicine). The standard for establishing a defence in Queensland criminal law is the balance of probabilities, so the jury had to be satisfied that the abortion was probably not medically necessary. If the defence could find a doctor to give evidence that it was, a jury without medical qualifications could never be satisfied to the required standard that it wasn't. But I appreciate it would depend on the criminal code/law of the individual state.elengil wrote:If it's illegal in a state, it is entirely possible for the state to charge the woman with something because there is no 'allowed' reason. Now, whether it'll hold up in court or on appeal if it was actually done in a state where it *is* legal, that's another matter entirely. But I wouldn't put it past any anti-abortion state to try.Túrin Turambar wrote:Actually prosecuting someone for having an abortion is actually much harder than it sounds, because the state needs to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the abortion actually happened and wasn't for an allowed reason. For example, my home state of Queensland had anti-abortion laws on the books until very recently which hadn't actually been used since the 1980s (with one exception). Doctors would not provide the evidence, and because of it, prosecutors could not justify starting prosecutions they were almost certain to lose. This is something the pro-life side often overlooks.