Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

The place for measured discourse about politics and current events, including developments in science and medicine.
Post Reply
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 46570
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

There's been a lot of talk about the DoJ's filing yesterday, and with good reason, but I haven't seen anyone note that de Oliveira's attorneys filed a Speedy Trial Report in which they state:
"Mr. De Oliveira has not filed any motions in this case. He does not concede that the interests of justice require a delay in his trial, and he asserts his right to a speedy trial within 70 days of his first appearance on July 31, 2023. By undersigned counsel’s calculations, that would be October 9, 2023."
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
River
bioalchemist
Posts: 13443
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:08 am
Location: the dry land

Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by River »

So does this mean he gets tried separately? Or that Trump and Nauta's defense attorney's now have a problem?
When you can do nothing what can you do?
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 46570
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I had begun to write a response, but I think the better response for me to say "I don't know." It will be interesting to see what Judge Cannon does. I would guess that she will just rule that the interests of justice require a detay, and keep de Oliveira's trial date in May with the other defendants. Unless he does a motion to sever, which he has not done thus far.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 46570
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Two more sealed document entries, one yesterday and one today.

I see that I never commented on the response that de Oliveira filed to the government's motion for a Garcia hearing regarding his attorney John Irving's potential conflicts, but it was very similar to what Nauta had previously filed regarding his attorney Stan Woodward's conflicts.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 46570
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

And 3 more sealed entries. I wonder what is going on?
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 46570
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

It occurs to me that the sealed entry on August 31 must have been the "sur-reply" that Judge Cannon allowed Nauta's attorney Stanley Woodward to file to the motion for the Garcia hearing that the DoJ filed, and that the subsequent filings are either responses by the DoJ or additional information provided by Woodward, since August 31 was the deadline that Judge Cannon set to file the sur-reply.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 46570
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Now I am really confused. Woodward has now filed the sur-reply, today, on September 5. Five days (3 business days) after the deadline that Judge Cannon set for them to do so. Will she let that happen? Is there something in the multitude of sealed filings that explain why this is happening? I really don't know. Maybe someone on X can explain it to me.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
N.E. Brigand
Posts: 7563
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 1:41 am
Location: Cleveland, OH, USA

Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by N.E. Brigand »

Judge Cannon yesterday finally issued the protective order, and most observers say it's reasonable.

Today Donald Trump was interviewed by conservative independent journalist Megyn Kelly. He has previously suggested that it might not have been a classified document but merely a newspaper that he was describing as a classified document when he waved it in front of others at his club in Bedminister, New Jersey. Kelly asked him exactly papers he was waving at that moment. He replied, "I'm not going to talk to you about that because that's already been, I think, very substantiated, and there's no problem with it." When Kelly pointed out that the superseding indictment says otherwise, he replied, "I'm covered by the Presidential Records Act. I'm allowed to do what I want to do. I'm allowed to have documents." He then complained of the Special Counsel's filings that "They don't even mention the Presidential Records Act. This is all about the Presidential Records Act. I'm allowed to have these documents. I'm allowed to take these documents, classified or not classified, and frankly, when I have them, they become unclassified. People think you have to go through a ritual. You don't. At least in my opinion, you don't."
N.E. Brigand
Posts: 7563
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 1:41 am
Location: Cleveland, OH, USA

Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by N.E. Brigand »

Donald Trump also pointed out to Megyn Kelly that just yesterday, Russia's president, Vladimir Putin, described the indictments against Trump as political persecution. of course, if Joe Biden were like Vladimir Putin, Trump would have been poisoned or pushed out a window by now.
User avatar
Frelga
Meanwhile...
Posts: 22656
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:31 pm
Location: Home, where else

Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Frelga »

That he thinks it's an endorsement worth bragging about really says everything.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 46570
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

You can't make this shit up.



While less exciting, this detail that Ryan Goodman highlights is probably more important in terms of helping to convict Trump.

"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 46570
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 46570
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Judge Cannon has finally responded to the special counsel's motions for Garcia hearings, granting them in part and scheduling two hearings on October 12. She has ordered that Nauta and de Oliveira must be present, but that the other witnesses represented (or previously represented) by Woodward and Irving need not be present. She has not ordered the hearings to be ex parte or under seal, but has reserved the right to hold a portion of each hearing sealed and ex parte to protect privileged communications. So far as I can tell, she has not ordered that there be separate counsel present to advise Nauta or de Oliveira.

ETA: Amusingly, Allison Gill (aka "Mueller She Wrote"), keeps responding to the same people that I asked to confirm that I was correct that she denied the request to have an independent counsel present for each co-defendant, asking the same question. I don't know if she doesn't see that I asked the same question or just thinks that she is more likely to get a response (she probably is).
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 46570
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Roger Parloff does address the question.



To me, this makes the Garcia hearing almost a waste of time.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
N.E. Brigand
Posts: 7563
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 1:41 am
Location: Cleveland, OH, USA

Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by N.E. Brigand »

Meanwhile ABC reports that the investigation into Joe Biden's retention of classified documents has interviewed more than 100 witnesses, including the current Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, but so far:

"Sources who were present for some of the interviews, including witnesses, told ABC News that authorities had apparently uncovered instances of carelessness from Biden's vice presidency, but that -- based on what was said in the interviews -- it seemed to them that the improper removal of classified documents from Biden's office when he left the White House in 2017 was more likely a mistake than a criminal act."
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 46570
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Should have been completed long since.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
N.E. Brigand
Posts: 7563
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 1:41 am
Location: Cleveland, OH, USA

Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by N.E. Brigand »

Donald Trump seems to be arguing that he should be shot.

(To be clear: he should not be shot.)
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 46570
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

With any other judge, this would not only be a non-starter, but a recipe for a judicial scolding. With Judge Cannon, we'll see. I cannot express how utterly inappropriate it is that they are making a whole new request, for a continuance of the trial date, no less, in a reply brief. The special counsel must ask for leave to file a response to the new request.

"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 46570
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Not sure if this will come up in this case or not, but it certainly is related.

"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
N.E. Brigand
Posts: 7563
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 1:41 am
Location: Cleveland, OH, USA

Re: Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

Post by N.E. Brigand »

The New York Times now has its own reporting that matches ABC's on Trump sharing sub secrets.
Post Reply