Chaos in Congress

[RoseMorninStar]

The chaos is the point. Throw wrenches into all the gears so you can say the machine doesn’t work.

This.

The goal of the MAGA team is to keep the government from doing anything for the citizens, and then point to that and say, see, government bad!

The trouble with that strategy is that now they are the government, but they are betting on being able to suppress democratic elections so that no one can do anything about that.

Yup. Exactly this. Nihilism. (from my Oxford dictionary): • historical the doctrine of an extreme Russian revolutionary party c. 1900 which found nothing to approve of in the established social order.

[N.E. Brigand]

Well, Kevin McCarthy struck a deal that satisfies most of his Republican opponents and on the 12th ballot, he finally got more votes (213) than Hakeem Jeffries (211), but he's still three votes shy of the 216 he would need to win today. (Two Republicans and one Democrat are out today for personal or family medical reasons.) Some reports indicate the deal includes a $75 billion cut to defense spending, which the far right is interpreting to mean a cut to support for Ukraine. I can't help but think back to when a recording emerged of McCarthy saying in 2016 that he believed there were two Republican politicians he believed to be on Vladimir Putin's payroll.

[N.E. Brigand]

Well, Kevin McCarthy struck a deal that satisfies most of his Republican opponents and on the 12th ballot, he finally got more votes (213) than Hakeem Jeffries (211), but he's still three votes shy of the 216 he would need to win today. (Two Republicans and one Democrat are out today for personal or family medical reasons.) Some reports indicate the deal includes a $75 billion cut to defense spending, which the far right is interpreting to mean a cut to support for Ukraine. I can't help but think back to when a recording emerged of McCarthy saying in 2016 that he believed there were two Republican politicians he believed to be on Vladimir Putin's payroll.

The Democrat who missed the 12th ballot, David Trone of Maryland, was out this morning for shoulder surgery but is now back at the Capitol. So Jeffries will presumably have 212 votes on the 13th ballot now underway, and McCarthy will need to find not three but four more votes to get the 217 needed to win.

[N.E. Brigand]

CNN reports that to win over the intransigent Republican votes he added on the 12th ballot, Kevin McCarthy agreed that a vote to increase the debt ceiling would not be "clean" but would include certain conditions (apparently to be identified later by the obstructionists).

Not raising the debt ceiling is the equivalent of buying something on a credit card and then not paying your credit card bill when it comes due. Attaching conditions to that is moronic.

[N.E. Brigand]

Another condition the renegade Republicans have apparently gotten Kevin McCarthy to agree to is the reinstatement of the "Holman rule," which was in effect from 1876 to 1983 and from 2017 to 2019 and which allows the House to amend appropriations bills to cut the salaries of specific positions. There is some fear that extremist members might use this rule to target investigations of Donald Trump. I think this fear is overblown: any such amendment still has to be passed by the full House, and then by the Senate, and even if both of those things happened, President Biden will never sign an appropriations bill into law that defunds the office of Special Counsel Jack Smith.

[elengil]

Another condition the renegade Republicans have apparently gotten Kevin McCarthy to agree to is the reinstatement of the "Holman rule," which was in effect from 1876 to 1983 and from 2017 to 2019 and which allows the House to amend appropriations bills to cut the salaries of specific positions. There is some fear that extremist members might use this rule to target investigations of Donald Trump. I think this fear is overblown: any such amendment still has to be passed by the full House, and then by the Senate, and even if both of those things happened, President Biden will never sign an appropriations bill into law that defunds the office of Special Counsel Jack Smith.

Yes but then they spin it as Democrats not passing the bill, not them sinking it...

[N.E. Brigand]

CNN reports that to win over the intransigent Republican votes he added on the 12th ballot, Kevin McCarthy agreed that a vote to increase the debt ceiling would not be "clean" but would include certain conditions (apparently to be identified later by the obstructionists).

Not raising the debt ceiling is the equivalent of buying something on a credit card and then not paying your credit card bill when it comes due. Attaching conditions to that is moronic.

Matt Yglesias argues that if push ever comes to shove, the U.S. won't default because President Biden will quite properly declare that the very idea of a debt ceiling violates the Constitution: "Either the debt ceiling will be raised and things will be fine, or else the debt ceiling will be ignored through one means or another, and Republicans will be able to sue and lose if they want to. But there’s no universe in which the country defaults or they win concessions. ... Joe Biden has a solemn constitutional obligation to spend all the money already required by law and no money not required by law."

[N.E. Brigand]

Kevin McCarthy's supporters are saying that he'll win on the fourteenth ballot after the House reconvenes at 10 p.m., following which the members-elect will be sworn in, and then at around 2 a.m., they will vote on the House Rules for the 118th Congress.

McCarthy led Hakeem Jeffries 214-212 on the 13th ballot. There were 6 votes for Jim Jordan and 2 Republicans not present. Earlier today it was reported that those absent Republicans -- both McCarthy supporters -- would return this evening. That means there would be a total of 434 members-elect, of which McCarthy would need 218 to win. To do that, he'd need to flip 2 of the 6 holdouts, who were: Andy Biggs (AZ-5), Lauren Boebert (CO-3), Eli Crane (AZ-2), Matt Gaetz (FL-1), Bob Good (VA-5), and Matt Rosendale (MT-2).

[RoseMorninStar]

What the hold-out group wants in exchange seems pretty audacious (from what I'm hearing, committee assignments they haven't earned/aren't qualified for?). A coup by other means, perhaps?

[N.E. Brigand]

What the hold-out group wants in exchange seems pretty audacious (from what I'm hearing, committee assignments they haven't earned/aren't qualified for?). A coup by other means, perhaps?

Sort of? At least it would mean two years of dysfunction. The key assignments will be on the Rules Committee, and McCarthy appears to have pledged to this obstructionist group the ability to be the real power in the House, despite there being only 20 of them. And apparently Mark Meadows, who seems to have played an instrumental role in the events of January 6th, is a key mover behind the scheming. Josh Marshall points to these two articles:

"House members blocking McCarthy speaker bid meet at offices of ex-Trump chief Mark Meadows" (Yahoo News).

"Inside the Freedom Caucus plan to act like a 'third party' in Congress" (Grid News).

[N.E. Brigand]

CNN reporter Melanie Zanona lists the concessions that Kevin McCarthy is said to have made to his 20 opponents to gain most of their votes.

One item that caught my eye is the perennial issue of term limits: apparently the hold-outs were demanding a vote on a Constitutional amendment to allow Congress to impose term limits on its members. I might be able to support such a move as long as it required an accompanying term limit on lobbyists: no person and no corporation should be allowed to communicate with Congress in any way for longer than whatever the term limit imposed on Congressional membership is. And that would have to include a prohibition on any such group reorganizing to skirt the law.

Yes, that would put a limitation on the First Amendment, but without this, you'd effectively be handing Congressional power over to the lobbyists.

[N.E. Brigand]

Kevin McCarthy's supporters are saying that he'll win on the fourteenth ballot after the House reconvenes at 10 p.m., following which the members-elect will be sworn in, and then at around 2 a.m., they will vote on the House Rules for the 118th Congress.

McCarthy led Hakeem Jeffries 214-212 on the 13th ballot. There were 6 votes for Jim Jordan and 2 Republicans not present. Earlier today it was reported that those absent Republicans -- both McCarthy supporters -- would return this evening. That means there would be a total of 434 members-elect, of which McCarthy would need 218 to win. To do that, he'd need to flip 2 of the 6 holdouts, who were: Andy Biggs (AZ-5), Lauren Boebert (CO-3), Eli Crane (AZ-2), Matt Gaetz (FL-1), Bob Good (VA-5), and Matt Rosendale (MT-2).

In the course of nominating Hakeem Jeffries, Pete Aguilar reminded everyone that this is the two-year anniversary of January 6th and that quite a few people who voted to support the insurrection are in the House. He's right, but I wonder if it will play like Adam Schiff's reference to "head on a pike" in Donald Trump's first impeachment trial: as an excuse the holdout Republicans can use: I would have held out but then the Democrats insulted me (by telling the truth).

Jake Sherman says that Ken Buck, one of the two Republicans, is not back yet. I'm not sure if the other, Wesley Hunt, is back.

Andy Biggs voted for Jim Jordan.
Lauren Boebert voted present, lowering the number of votes McCarthy needs by one.
Eli Crane voted for Andy Biggs.
Matt Gaetz chose to withhold his vote to the end.
Bob Good voted for Jim Jordan.

Wesley Hunt is back and voted for McCarthy. If Buck is not, and if no one else votes present, then the total (non-present) votes would be 432 (=434 minus Buck minus Boebert), and McCarthy would need 417 (=432/2+1). Presumably he'll keep his 214 from the previous ballot, and he's added Hunt to that total. That makes 215. So it's a question of two Matts: Gaetz and Rosendale.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Currently 4 others. I don't know which of the Matts voted, or for you. Probably Rosendale, since you said Gaetz chose to withhold his vote to the end.

[N.E. Brigand]

Jake Sherman seems to think that a Matt Gaetz vote will win it for Kevin McCarthy, so my math may be wrong.

It was Matt Rosendale who voted for Andy Biggs.

Ah! Ken Buck is back (and voted for McCarthy, as before). That's what it is.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Yes, just coming back here to say that it is coming down to Gaetz. On 1/6. The man who shouldn't even be there because he should have long since been indicted.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Not sure what the significance of this is, but it good mean that Gaetz is still a no.

[N.E. Brigand]

Trouble! Actual chaos!

Matt Gaetz voted present. That's the same as if Buck hadn't returned, so the total votes cast is 432, with McCarthy needing 217.

And he only has 216.

And other Republicans are very mad at Gaetz. McCarthy went back to talk to him. Someone else who was saying something to Gaetz had to physically restrained. I guess it was Mike Rogers, whom V's post references. After I saw that, the camera followed McCarthy and there was further hubbub I didn't see.

[N.E. Brigand]

I heard someone say, "We'll do it again. We'll do it again." Presumably that means ballot #15 is coming tonight. But the official count for ballot #14 hasn't been announced yet.

[Frelga]

This reporting by Robert Costa sounds like stage directions for a Chekov play.

McHenry breathing heavy

Tim Burchett still at the center of it all next to Boebert and Gaetz

Voices rising

Confusion and anger on both sides now

McHenry now approaching Gaetz again, Gaetz silent

Costa is live tweeting here https://twitter.com/costareports?s=09

[N.E. Brigand]

OK, now it's official. McCarthy still doesn't have it.