Russia's Invasion of Ukraine

[Sunsilver]

I've always found it mind-boggling how some conservative Christians can fixate on certain verses in the Bible, and totally ignore others.

Like the passages that say homosexuals should be put to death also says adulterers should meet the same fate... (Leviticus Ch. 20.)

[River]

Even in Poland, which has taken in the bulk of the Ukrainians, it's not the government that is doing the work, it's self organized individuals, and they are burning out.

The same thing happened in Serbia in 2015, when the waves of refugees started pouring in from the Near East. Eventually, the government stepped up and finally the UN also showed up. By the time we visited that summer, all the action was at the northern border posts and the only evidence we saw of the crisis in Belgrade was a car with UNHCR plates. Hopefully, that kind of stepping up will happen for Poland soon. Of course, ideally, they should have been getting ready for this the instant Russian troops crossed the border.

On a another note, self-organization seems to be a thing that people just do in the face of a disaster. It's another thing I've seen playing out since the fire. The government at every level knew more or less what to do. I think evacuations on this scale were a new thing for the area but the evac centers opened promptly and in general the government systems and the nonprofits that get involved in these situations did what they were expected to do. But the community itself whipped up free stores, meal distributions, some local businesses started passing out gift cards, and a couple individuals started organizing all the offers of household goods and assistance into spreadsheets and it's been a wild ride. I think this is just a thing humans do. It's how we have governments in the first place.

[Sunsilver]

Well said, River!

This echoes what one of my favourite dog people said today:

The destruction of Ukraine, oddly, has restored my faith in people. So many have stepped in to help in their own creative ways.
When it first started, like most, I felt so helpless. My sport has been so good to me that naturally I turned there.
I wanted to help a fellow competitor in Ukraine that needed it. My person had already fled to Germany. Her husband was not allowed to leave Ukraine, so unable to speak German or English, she went alone with their young child.
I was able to track her down with the help of amazing people, and rent her a place to stay for a week in Germany. Once she was safe, I learned she’s also rather pregnant.
I had her safe for one pathetic week. The following weeks haunted me, then one of the people who had helped me find her invited her to move into her home in Finland to live with her family. Her friends got together and got them plane tickets, clothes, a room and a new beginning.
One family of the millions of refugees are safe to begin building their life back.
I hereby challenge all of you in a dog sport, or passionate in a hobby, to reach out to your international connections, and see if you can do something to help just one person. Not only will it help you find some balance among the uncertainty, it gives you a chance to pay back to the sport or hobby that has shaped your life, all while helping a person to restart after having everything taken away.
Monique Anstee
Victoria, BC

[RoseMorninStar]

I'm sorry to hear that, tbh. I don't think it's any random BIPOC's job to explain things to me. I am capable of doing my own research and do. However, I would expect someone who is genuinely a friend to be open to discussions and opportunities to deepen understanding. That's what friendship is about. I hope your friend comes around soon.

Thank you for your reply Laly. I didn't so much mean that it was some random BIPOC's job to 'explain things to me'. I do my own research too, but there are some insights one can only learn from the experience of someone who has experienced something. It's why the testimony of Holocaust survivors is so important. My friend should also explain why they are so angry with me personally because I'm left wondering what faux pas I committed so I know if the ire is justified. Was it something as simple as temporarily changing my FB profile pic to a sunflower or did I unintentionally do/say something worse? Time will tell.

Re: Evangelicals, 'Christians' and being simpatico with fellow 'Christian' nations .. I'll point out that most of those coming from Mexico/South America are Christians and I haven't noticed much of that 'Christian Love'.

I understand what many of you are saying (and agree with many of the points) there has been an overwhelming support for Ukraine's plight, which is not unwarranted. Part of that is due to issues we've discussed but I also think the support is more visible due to social media. That said, for example, we don't see as much visible support for the Uighur in China or the people of Myanmar, etc.. and she would (rightly) ask if they are not deserving of our sympathy and support as well.

[Frelga]

This is interesting.

Via @apmassaro3

20220312_112932.jpg (41.24 KiB) Viewed 2064 times

[RoseMorninStar]

That is interesting Frelga. I'm not sure I'd get that listening to what Tucker Carlson has to say. Not that I listen to him.. but I hear plenty regarding the things he 'reports'.

[Frelga]

I think it shows how small that audience is on the scale of America.

This sounds like the stories my MIL told us of evacuating from Odessa with Luftwaffe bombing ships and trains, and shooting at women and children as they tried to scatter. Her family got separated, and the other group was all killed. She was 15.

Never again is now.

[N.E. Brigand]

Sheesh. No power at home for the past nine hours while electrical repairs were underway. Power back on, check the news and find that Russia started a fire at a Ukrainian nuclear plant (fortunately it seems to be contained to an ancillary building), and U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham is suggesting that a would-be "Brutus" or "Stauffenberg" ought to assassinate Vladimir Putin. I'll admit that I've been wondering whether an incident such as Graham conjures might happen! But I kept it to myself, on the grounds that saying it in public would be too incendiary, and I'm a nobody. Thanks to Graham's tweet, Putin now can claim that at least one U.S. official has been threatening the Russian government.

Great movie, by the way:

I didn't know it was filmed in Kyiv!

[Frelga]

Right. Umm...so since when did Russia/Putin become a 'defender of the Christian faith?? When I was a kid, they were the 'Godless Communists'!

Rumors of the godlessness of the USSR have been highly exaggerated. Actually, 90% of what you heard about the USSR is probably wrong.

However, Russian Orthodox church has experienced a resurgence in the 30 years since fall of the Soviet Union. It seems firmly in Putin's pocket, although a priest was censored last week for preaching on "though shall not kill"

I must be missing something here... Or do some of the right wingers actually believe the Russian propaganda that Ukraine has become Fascist?

Too many do.

[RoseMorninStar]

N.E. what movie is that?

Frelga, unfortunately I live in a world (outside my immediate family) where FOX news is la prima (and only) station. My Pillow guy is next to godliness.

River, Suny, good stories. So much turmoil in the world. Climate change will make unrest, migration, and food insecurity even worse. War never helps. As Mr. Rogers would say, "Look for the helpers'. The positive accounts are important...as well as being aware of where we could do better.

In a timely fashion Beau had a good video on this topic today and he's more articulate on the subject than I have been. It got me to wondering, in addition to the things we've already discussed, if treatment of migrants/refugees is prejudice based on race/skin color or has more to do with poverty (or both).

[Túrin Turambar]

While I opposed the Iraq War, and while I’m keenly aware of the west’s hypocrisy in foreign policy (e.g. support for Saudi Arabia) you can only take comparisons of Iraq and Ukraine so far. Ukraine had an elected government, Iraq had an authoritarian regime with no legitimacy beyond force. The American victory in Iraq led to an election, a Russian victory in Ukraine will lead to an undemocratic government either through outright annexation by Russia or the establishment of a puppet state. There are no shades of grey in Ukraine.

[RoseMorninStar]

While I opposed the Iraq War, and while I’m keenly aware of the west’s hypocrisy in foreign policy (e.g. support for Saudi Arabia) you can only take comparisons of Iraq and Ukraine so far. Ukraine had an elected government, Iraq had an authoritarian regime with no legitimacy beyond force. The American victory in Iraq led to an election, a Russian victory in Ukraine will lead to an undemocratic government either through outright annexation by Russia or the establishment of a puppet state. There are no shades of grey in Ukraine.

I agree, it makes a difference if the situation is not ambiguous. Unfortunately it's always the innocent that pay. It shouldn't make us less (or more) sympathetic to those caught in the crossfire.

[Frelga]

I agree, it makes a difference if the situation is not ambiguous. Unfortunately it's always the innocent that pay. It shouldn't make us less (or more) sympathetic to those caught in the crossfire.

I agree. It does make a different to the plan of action, though. It is clear what needs to be done about Ukraine - kick out putin, rebuild. Easier said than done, sure. It's not clear what would fix Iraq, since we can't go back to 2003 and not invade. (I'm sure putin would love to go to go back to February and not have invaded Ukraine)

Speaking of Iraq. WTF did just happen?

[Sunsilver]

Speaking of Saudi Arabia - this has gone mostly unnoticed, due to the invasion of Ukraine:

Saudi Arabia executes 81 men in one day:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-Eä ... yyPRppuz90

[RoseMorninStar]

Speaking of Iraq. WTF did just happen?

[N.E. Brigand]

N.E. what movie is that?

The Death of Stalin (2017) adapted from a 2012 French graphic novel on that subject and the subsequent struggle for power by his deputies. A very dark comedy, it's not historically accurate but it is generally viewed as correctly capturing some aspects of the spirit of the time -- thus, e.g., Garry Kasparaov's endorsement above. I have referred to it before as the best onscreen presentation of the ethos of Mordor.

[Frelga]

Husband is watching old interviews with Zelensky's, making seal noises all the while. Apparently at one of his concerts someone in the audience came wrapped in a Russian flag and started to yell insults at Zelensky and Ukraine in general. Zelensky made an attempt to defuse the situation, then gave up, left the stage, and punched the guy. That... may explain things.

[Lalaith]

Thank you for your reply Laly. I didn't so much mean that it was some random BIPOC's job to 'explain things to me'. I do my own research too, but there are some insights one can only learn from the experience of someone who has experienced something.

I didn't say you did expect random BIPOCs to explain things to you, nor did I say or imply that you don't do your own research. <scratches head> I just wanted to clear that up since I feel you misunderstood my post. With that, though, I'll leave it be because I feel like I'm saying one thing but it's not coming across how I'm intending it.

Can't remember who posted it now, maybe Frelga, and I can't really scroll back to check in Tapatalk, but yikes about Saudi Arabia!

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

[Sunsilver]

Husband is watching old interviews with Zelensky's, making seal noises all the while. Apparently at one of his concerts someone in the audience came wrapped in a Russian flag and started to yell insults at Zelensky and Ukraine in general. Zelensky made an attempt to defuse the situation, then gave up, left the stage, and punched the guy. That... may explain things.

Yes, indeed! Good man!

Um, what are 'seal noises'?

Can't remember who posted it now, maybe Frelga, and I can't really scroll back to check in Tapatalk, but yikes about Saudi Arabia!

Lali, it was me.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Husband is watching old interviews with Zelensky's, making seal noises all the while. Apparently at one of his concerts someone in the audience came wrapped in a Russian flag and started to yell insults at Zelensky and Ukraine in general. Zelensky made an attempt to defuse the situation, then gave up, left the stage, and punched the guy. That... may explain things.

Yes, indeed! Good man!

"Good man" that he punched someone because the person insulted him and Ukraine in general?