Lord of the Rings series!?

For discussion of the upcoming films based on The Hobbit and related material, as well as previous films based on Tolkien's work
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Inanna
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Inanna »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote:in the sense of characters not created by Tolkien; obviously they are all "made up characters" in the sense that is a fictional story).
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Maybe not blasphemous, but certainly not what I am hoping for!

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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Inanna »

I meant you calling JRRT’s characters “made up”. ;)
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Frelga »

Most of the male actors look like they might be playing orcs. Ismael Cruz Cordova is pretty, though.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I don't know, some of them have ears that look like they would not need any prosthetics to play Elves (as commonly portrayed in popular culture). ;)
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Frelga »

Like this?
Screenshot_20200115-134546.jpg
Screenshot_20200115-134546.jpg (48.73 KiB) Viewed 11944 times
His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, 'You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."

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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by kzer_za »

Alatar wrote:Its certainly a more diverse cast than PJ's which makes it feel a little more, I dunno, modern? Not to start the whole "Was Tolkien a racist" debate again (spoiler, he wasn't) but this feels like pandering. Its just looks like a cast I'd see in Shannara, rather than Silmarillion.
I think there is more room for minorities to be put in Tolkien than is usual for adaptations. You have Harfoot Hobbits, "swarthy" Gondorians which probably includes Beregond and Forlong the Mumak-slayer, Druedain, even the house of Bëor is made partly swarthy in a late essay. What "swarthy" means is open to interpretation, but there are at least some openings to put more nonwhite characters while staying within the bounds of the text. Especially for Númenor, being a Mediterranean-ish naval power.

Unfortunately Tolkien and race is going to be a major topic when the show comes out whether we like it or not. Expect to hear a lot from both the alt-right (I fully expect idiots who know nothing about the lore to say things like "those SJWs are ruining Tolkien with their anti-colonial propaganda") and progressives with an axe to grind. I think Tolkien made some mistakes on race and should not be 100% above criticism (black men from far Harad, anyone?), but so many of the critiques on that topic are just one-sided and uncharitable. His heart was generally in the right place especially for a man born at the height of the British Empire, and he showed a willingness to be self-critical and revisionist on some aspects of his work.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by yovargas »

I've long thought if I were personally to ever do an adaptation of Tolkien, I would make the elves look like an ethnicity that doesn't exist among real humans. It would piss off many Tolkien fans, but I would love doing something like making elves with very dark skin and very light hair and eyes. :) :) :) :) :)
Last edited by yovargas on Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I would totally be down with that, yov!
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Inanna »

Yov, that is a great thought! I think Ursula Guin describes a race in her books like that.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by RoseMorninStar »

Elves seem like they should be green. Even dark green.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Frelga »

Because we can accept fantasy people looking like anything except actual brown humans?
His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, 'You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."

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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by RoseMorninStar »

Frelga wrote:Because we can accept fantasy people looking like anything except actual brown humans?
I can only speak for myself, but I guess because they are 'of the forest' and it's probably something I had in my head as a child. Tolkien's take on elves are very different than the ideas I had of elves in my youth.. as were my idea of dwarves.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Frelga »

Given that Tolkien's Elves look like very pretty humans, and indeed pretty humans are sometimes compared to Elves, and also given that they interbreed readily, I feel that Elves should look pretty human. Although I would be open to the Elrond Half-elven being kinda lettuce colored.
His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, 'You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."

Terry Pratchett, Small Gods
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Alatar »

And there ya go. Anyone who thinks Tolkien wrote a predominantly white Middle-earth is of course racist.

https://twitter.com/theoneringnet/statu ... 7900527617

And people wonder why the right wing gains traction.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by kzer_za »

I read some of the social media comments, and yes there is definitely racism there. Here are just a couple of more extreme ones. I'm having trouble embedding the images, but it's probably best not to anyway for those who would rather not see the ugliness:

https://imgur.com/iMxZQH8

https://imgur.com/cu8ajQL

I don't think everyone with an opinion on how modern diversity standards should play into LotR is racist, but it does play a part in some of the reactions.
Last edited by kzer_za on Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Alatar »

I'm not saying that racists don't want a less diverse LotR, just that people who want a less diverse LotR are not necessarily racist.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Inanna »

I don’t see the problem in creating a more diverse LOTR?
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by RoseMorninStar »

kzer_za wrote:I read some of the social media comments, and yes there is definitely racism there. Here are just a couple of more extreme ones. I'm having trouble embedding the images, but it's probably best not to anyway for those who would rather not see the ugliness:

https://imgur.com/iMxZQH8

https://imgur.com/cu8ajQL

I don't think everyone with an opinion on how modern diversity standards should play into LotR is racist, but it does play a part in some of the reactions.
Ugh.. the reasons I don't like (or use) most 'social media', people can be so vile. What the hell is wrong with them?
Frelga wrote:Although I would be open to the Elrond Half-elven being kinda lettuce colored.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by elengil »

Not really anything new but was a nice break from watching the news so... here ya go - something nice to watch/listen to for 10 minutes or so.

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