The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews... SPOILERS

[Jude]

Maybe it's just because I'm used to PJ's style by now, but when Azog was floating on the ice, I knew he was building up for a "big surprise".

Come on - was anyone surprised when he opened his eyes and jumped through the ice?

[Passdagas the Brown]

We're not talking about a story thread, we're talking about the story. It's not like I'm asking to know the fate of Alfrid here...


(If I recall correctly, that US/USSR alliance fell apart faster than it lasted. If you apply that to the BOFA....)

Right, but it wasn't dead the day after WWII ended...Plus, as I said, it fell apart because of one nation's territorial ambitions in Europe. None of the factions in BOFA have territorial ambitions. The fight was about the money in the mountain. And the existential orc threat probably made them realize that the fight over money was a petty one...

You are asking for an explanation why, the day after a major battle in which men, elves and dwarves fought together against a hellish horde of common enemies (and during which the main instigator of the previous discord, Thorin Oakenshield, dies) these three factions don't immediately lunge for each other's throats the next day? To me, the idea that they decide NOT to continue their hostilities against each other after the BOFA is far more plausible and realistic than your scenario.

It's simple. Thorin is dead, and Dain is nowhere to be seen. And it looks like Balin, the most reasonable of the company, is in charge. Given that situation, the fact that there's peace between dwarf, man and elf seems perfectly reasonable in the film's context - notwithstanding a broader interpretation of how alliances form and dissolve.

Why is any more than that necessary to explain?

[yovargas]

Why is any more than that necessary to explain?

Because we've been building to this for 8 hours and it deserves more than a vague "Um, I guess everything's probably okay now? ". The way the story ends, it's almost like the quest to reclaim their home is some tangential sidestory instead of the entire reason that everything is happening. Hell, even just one line of Balin saying something along the lines of "Well, we've reclaimed our home even if at great cost and we'll work on building peace in the upcoming days" would've been nice. Some acknowledgement that that whole story line, like, you know, mattered and stuff.



And Jude - I suspect the only people surprised by that are people who've never seen a movie before.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Huh? At what point was the dwarves' retaking of Erebor in question? As soon as the dragon died, that process was complete. The dispute was about distributing the treasure, not taking Erebor. Did PJ have Thranduil or Bard talk about seizing Erebor at some point? If so, I must have missed it.

Given that Balin survives, and Thorin doesn't, it is very clear that the dwarves would decide to be reasonable and share the wealth with the men of Laketown (and give the elves their small share). So, the dwarves retook Erebor. Mission accomplished - though it wasn't pretty (kind of the point).

Am I missing something?

"Um, I guess everything's probably okay now?

Um, yeah. The source of the conflict was Thorin Oakenshield. He died. His crew were not keen on starting the war at all - particularly the wisest and oldest of them - Balin. And Balin seems to be their leader now, judging by his chat with Bilbo. So why would things NOT be OK now?

Due to this discussion, I am convinced that bringing Dain into the aftermath will be a problem, however. If he is alive, your question is a valid one (and should be resolved with a scene that explicitly shows Dain being...er...magnanimous). But as it stands in the film, it looks like the forces driving division (crazy Thorin and Dain) have been dealt with.

[yovargas]

Am I missing something?

Yes - a proper conclusion to this film.

[Passdagas the Brown]

I don't think you've addressed (or even tried to address) any of the points I've made. So, um, yeah. Right back atcha:

[yovargas]

You acknowledge that Dain being alive could be a problem but the ending is so rushed they didn't even bother taking the 20 seconds to confirm whether he's alive or dead. Like if it doesn't matter. They don't address Thranduil's intentions now at all - will he just leave, is this just a cease fire, is he still willing to fight for his claim. Like if it doesn't matter. They don't address whether the remaining dwarves will let the Laketown survivors take refuge there or if they want them to leave. Like if it doesn't matter. Or if Bard would still be willing to hold the Arkenstone ransom. Like if it doesn't matter. None of this is helped by the actual hour-long battle ending in the blink of an eye mostly off-screen. Like if it didn't really matter much.

But at least we took some time to confirm that Tauriel's dumb love was dumb true love. Cuz that's what really mattered.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Balin is the new leader, as far as the film is concerned. That is the strong implication I get from the post-battle scene of Bilbo and the dwarves. All of the issues above are therefore highly likely to be addressed in a fair and humane way, based on the quite clear characterization of Balin as a fair and reasonable dwarf. Balin will give the people of Laketown what they are owed (including temporary shelter), Thranduil will get the gems of Lasgaleth (or something like that), and Bard will return the Arkenstone to Balin. I think this is so highly likely that's it not worth wrapping up onscreen. Plus, the story of Bilbo and Thorin is over. And that's what this story is all about (or should have been all about...).

[yovargas]

Just cuz it was "likely" that Azog was going to jump out of that ice and stab Thorin to death doesn't mean it'd be a good idea to not bother showing it. (Actually, how exactly does one jump out of ice water....assuming one isn't Legolas, of course.)

[Jude]

You know what would have been totally surprising and unexpected? Having Thorin just watch him intently as Azog just drifts farther and farther away. Because everyone who has seen more than one movie would be tensing themselves for the inevitable burst through the ice that must happen at any moment. And when it doesn't happen, they'll get even more tense, because "they're really stretching it out! Any second now! Aaaaany second.... now...." and it would take such a long time for the tension to gradually dissipate. Now, that would be startlingly original moviemaking.

By the way, did you make your 10000th post today?

[yovargas]

You know what would have been totally surprising and unexpected? Having Thorin just watch him intently as Azog just drifts farther and farther away. Because everyone who has seen more than one movie would be tensing themselves for the inevitable burst through the ice that must happen at any moment. And when it doesn't happen, they'll get even more tense, because "they're really stretching it out! Any second now! Aaaaany second.... now...." and it would take such a long time for the tension to gradually dissipate.

And then he gets suddenly eaten by a misc. bat.

By the way, did you make your 10000th post today?

Hey, lookee that, seems I did!

[Passdagas the Brown]

I think it would have been great if Thorin survived the fight with Azog (with that scene exactly as Jude plays it), and then died falling off one of those huge goats on his way down from Ravenhill (ala TE Lawrence and the motorcycle accident).

[yovargas]

And then he gets suddenly eaten by a misc. bat?

[Teremia]

I love Jude's version! Surprise us by not surprising us--that would've been great.

[Dave_LF]

People have already nominated a few "best visual" candidates--I want to add one: Thranduil striding alone through the ruins of Dale, looking down at the slain elves with snow falling all around. This probably looked good in 2d, but it was stunning in 3. This was one of only two places where I remembered I was watching a 3d movie--the rest of the time, it was so unobtrusive I just took it for granted (the other one was Bard and Thorin talking through the hole in wall).

Runner-up: Gandalf alone on horseback, galloping north across flat terrain with mountains in the distance.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Both good scenes, I agree. Though for me, the Dale set (and most of the scenes in it) are far too cluttered. Visually, there's just too much going on there. And the battle scenes in the streets suffer for it, IMO. But that shot (and one shot in the tent, as Bilbo talks about why he brought the Arkenstone, and we see an army of elves passing by in the darkness outside), are really good.

Anyway, what did you think of the movie overall? Good, bad, ugly?

[Dave_LF]

I liked it very much, but I'm a pushover. I'll give it a more systematic treatment after I've had a chance to sleep.

***

I have a little personal tradition where every year on winter solstice, I wait for it to get good and dark, then go outside and sit on the deck under Orion's belt and drink a flask of mead. This year, on a clear, starry midwinter's eve that had Tolkien written all over it*, I raised that flask to J.R.R Tolkien, Peter Jackson, Phillipa Boyens, and Fran Walsh, the individuals whose stories have dominated my imagination for nearly all my life. Thank you all, and may you continue to inspire imaginations for year to come!

*as long as you're prepared to accept silver maples in place of beeches

[Elentári]

Ughh DP, sorry. Still having recurring problems with posting this time of day - getting the 500 error and having to check whether the post has actually gone through or not.

[Elentári]

I thought I'd repost this breakdown of Bo5A from a poster on TORn, since I believe PtB might be interested. It's the most in-depth review I've seen so far, and quite thought-provoking regarding PJ's directorial choices, and how an even tighter movie might have been made:

So I've finally seen Act III and I want to preface this entirely overlong, bloated, self-involved rant by saying that this is probably more in line with a post in an all-purpose Fan Review topic, but I didn't see one Stickied or in the first five pages of Hobbit chat, since I'm late to the party. Secondly, I managed to avoid spoilers and didn't see any clips or even hear Billy Boyd's song so I did at least get to see TBOTFA 100% fresh and thirdly, I'm hyper-critical because I love it. The source material, but even in a broad sense, all three of these new films in a way where I must say that "Even by-the-numbers Peter Jackson fantasy in this setting is better than most of the other movies I've seen lately."

I'll also preface by saying there's a lot of reference to an entirely theoretical Fan-Edit consisting of a single four hour film, and so there's mention of choices that'll likely never yield actual results and are more constructive criticism and book-purism workarounds than any motivation to actually learn how to use video editing software.

This critique is in the form of a pros and cons list, and gives only a little thought to potential Special Extended Edition scene placement.

FIRE AND WATER

LAKE-TOWN
Like: The calm before the storm and the setup for karma for The Master. I don't mind Tauriel being the “elf envoy” who helps Bard's kids escape. I also like Bard doing the rooftop hopping action bit.
Like: The visual treat that is the dragon napalming the town, the taunting, and even the drama of Bain bringing the black arrow to Bard and Smaug and the broken bow and the last ditch move. The death cry, rise, fall, and landing on The Master are nice for me, too, as is the light in Smaug's eye going out as he breaths his last death breath.
Like: The ballista was a red herring. Although that makes its inclusion pretty nonessential.
Dislike: The dwarves shouldn't be here, the problems of the last movie continue right into this one.
Dislike: That's because this movie doesn't have a beginning, it has an anticlimax.
Dislike: Manufactured false tension from Bard having to escape jail is pretty unnecessary.
RAVENHILL
Like: Generally this whole thing. The “first glimpse” of a key locale from later. Ravens returning. Thorin looking inward, toward the gate instead of out toward the fallen dragon. Good foreshadowing.
DOL GULDUR
Dislike: This is nonessential “hey look, Gandalf is in this” stuff, a result of the three-movie split. This scene in particular might be the most pointless Gandalf scene in all six movies.
ESGAROTH SHORELINE
Like: I like the location and that it's a real place a lot. I like all the dead floating bodies and crying women.
Like: I think Alfrid's inclusion here as an “old voice of old opinions” is solid enough and Bard's arrival is played okay. It plays a lot like it did in the book, and we all know “bookish” inclusions are the best parts. Bard is portrayed as “suitably grim” in the best way.
Like: I honestly don't mind Tauriel and Legolas being in here, as witnesses, speaking in their Sylvan tongue.
Dislike: Continuation of hating the dwarves even being here, I hate everything about that aspect. It serves virtually no narrative purpose, killed the tension with intercuts in the last movie, furthers only a bloated, pointless relationship subplot.

NOT AT HOME

DESOLATION
Like: The hike is lovely scenery and real New Zealand. It could take place earlier in an undivided Company version and give a good sense of the distance traversed. They rarely focus on every member of the Company anyway, so this scene could be moved to just after they leave Lake-town and before the Hidden Door.
Dislike: Obviously you could excise a ton of Lake-town diversions from the last movie and fix a lot of problems with bloat and pacing and loss of focus.
EREBOR
Like: Armitage goes dark, and it is glorious. Asshole Thorin is a standout feature here.
Dislike: They shouldn't have to reunite. Thank god that angle is over with.
Dislike: I think they revealed Bilbo having the Arkenstone too early. In the books we do know that he has it, but I think this is one instance where the film experience would be stronger if we're never certain that he has it until he reveals it to Bard and Thranduil. You could place the flashback snippet with Smaug there, too, although if the films were a single four-hour experience you wouldn't need the “remember this from last year” catch-up game.
LAKE-TOWN
Like: Bard and Legolas meeting without fanfare and discussing news of the dragon's death.
Like: I'm sort of okay with a little more Gundabad foreshadowing, but since I'm not okay with the Orc Raiders in the last movie, this is sort of a love/hate thing. But I am okay with Legolas and Tauriel riding off to go on a recon mission.
Dislike: We're still here? All this shit should've been covered in the Fire and Water segments. Pete can't stop himself from intercutting all over the place, can he?
Dislike: “Tauriel, you're banished!” is pretty melodramatic and stupid in the face of the realpolitik.
BROWN LANDS
Dislike: We're going to find soon that this movie has a problem where it will not stop cutting to Azog and Jackson can't stop showing scenes of massive orc armies gathering. The last few had the same problem. We do not need to know the enemy's motivation. Sauron didn't say a word in LOTR and we got the point. Showing Azog ruins his mystique, and more than that, it ruins the surprise. Nobody is supposed to know that these orcs are “gathering in secret” for revenge. It's supposed to come out of nowhere and change the game. Its foreshadowing is supposed to come from the adventure in the Goblin Tunnels and the Warg-Riders. We should only ever see the POV of the servants of Sauron when we're with a POV character who is in their midst, like Gandalf. Otherwise it's a detour that steals the movie from Bilbo. This scene (and many more) needs to be cut.

DOL GULDUR
Like: Setting and mood. The moonlit haunted castle in the forest is evocative, and the parapets make a nice scene for the rescue of Gandalf by the White Council, for the white lady Galadriel to walk into and carry Gandalf.
Like: The fight itself. The Nine as ghosts as a purist I may take issue with, but they were an evocative bit of imagery battling these wizards. Galadriel unleashed was a perfect blend of her FOTR freakout and a touch of Gandalf the White – pure Silmarillion. Elrond was used nicely. Saruman was used excellently. Sauron's freaky eye, form and infinity stuff was still cool, and his banishment looked cool. And the new organ arrangement of the Nazgûl/Sauron music was a nice tweak for this power play.
Dislike: I'm not sure about the placement here. In a fan edit I'd certainly adhere to the Appendices Timeline from LOTR, but from the point of view of movie pacing, particularly in “this third film's first half-hour”, it's another anticlimax after the first one.
Dislike: We didn't need all that exposition about elements we'll get to in good time about Gondor and what-not. A brief respite and a super subtle hint of Saruman's future ambitions would've been just fine.
RHOSGOBEL
Dislike: I like McCoy's Radagast but this is too close to the previous scene in timeline, and shouldn't be shown. Gandalf's fate shouldn't be revealed until Bilbo encounters him in Dale. Radagast having horses is deus ex machina since he's not shown to have any before this … unless I suppose they belong to Saruman, Galadriel and Elrond. Or Beorn. But it's a redundant scene that also serves to kill a surprise later in the film. Cut it.

EREBOR
Like: Generally I like most of the scenes where Thorin's madness grows and his friends plead with him. There might be too few of them but I'd be hard-pressed figuring out which ones to cut. I really don't mind that Balin and Dwalin do the heavy-lifting, character-wise. I think Bilbo's scene with Balin might be unnecessary but would be better if we weren't certain he had that Arkenstone. I do like that bit with Thorin and the acorn.

THE GATHERING OF THE CLOUDS

DALE
Like: The arrival of the refugees at Dale is nice, actually. The Dale set itself is one of my favorites and I'm glad they got good heavy use out of it because I love practical sets and this one is a doozy. I like how this is intercut with the dwarves building that barricade overnight.
BROWN LANDS
Dislike: Abrupt cut to Gandalf riding a horse in broad daylight when it's only feasibly dawn in the same timezone. Plus this is another unneeded example of Gandalf that ruins his surprising arrival later. Gandalf riding somewhere could've happened earlier in the film, like when he heads to meet Radagast or whatever. Or cut it.
DALE
Like: I like Bard looking after people, continuing threads that while overdone, were established last movie. I like the silent arrival of the elves and Thranduil being a merciful ally, even if he's there for his own reasons. I like that Thranduil is a complete asshole and Bard is a voice of reason.
Dislike: Too much Alfrid. Sure, it's not so bad here but it's going to get unreasonably bad.
EREBOR
Like: The failed parlay with Bard is good stuff. Very bookish. Well played. Winning material.
Dislike: This is 45 minutes after Smaug leaves Erebor. That's so much time.
DALE & EREBOR
Like: I really like the parallel of the Lake-men armoring up as the dwarves armor up and Thorin gifting the mithril vest to Bilbo is a strong scene. I also really like the use of Cumberbatchian hypnotic quality when Thorin is talking to Bilbo, and that the dragon sickness might be some of that Silmarillion style actual hypnosis.
GUNDABAD
Dislike: In general a reconaissance mission to Gundabad is fine, but there's two scenes set here in this film which is redundant, and this being the first one where Legolas talks about fictitious elements we don't care about like his mom is the more redundant of the two. Plus the bats don't even show up in this scene. More on that later. In general the location, politics and history around it are nice backstory that's almost Tolkien-accurate but it's pretty irrelevant.
DALE
Dislike: Gandalf's arrival in Dale. I like the shots of people continuing to armor up, to be honest, and the long shots of the set itself, but this is yet another example of showing too much of what Gandalf's up to, killing the surprise. That and Gandalf basically serves as a Middle-earth exposition machine prattling about all the Appendices shit Jackson is adding into the narrative, basically justifying the bloat. Sauron's already banished, and revenge is a good enough motivation for the villains who should be more mysterious anyway.
Dislike: The use of Alfrid here feels like Wormtongue-lite.
Like: Thranduil's lines about wizards are fun, showing not all kings are big Gandalf fans. But I'm not sure Lee Pace chewing scenery is worth killing the surprises from the book.
BROWN LANDS
Dislike: I'm cool with the were-worms. That is one random Tolkien element I didn't think would be added but makes for a great reconciliation with “how” the orcs travel secretly by daylight. But this is yet another scene of Azog prattling on exposition we don't need, killing his mystique, and destroying the surprise of the evil arrival later on that changes the whole battle because of surprise and a deadlier enemy. Plus the split of orc armies is unnecessary. The ambush later is fine, but armies coming from two directions is irrelevant. They should both just be coming from the Withered Heath and be “virtually” unconnected from the business with Sauron.
GUNDABAD
Like: The bats pouring out is okayish. The bats themselves are really cool, feel a bit Wizard of Oz-like.
Dislike: This feels like a rehash of Minas Morgul in ROTK, only without a legitimate POV character to witness it via, since Legolas and Tauriel's mission is on thin ice already. And nobody cares about Bolg.
Dislike: Any scene of the bats first appearance, swarming, should have been right before the Orcs arrive at the battle – the bats “announce the battle”. This is happening too early in the movie.

A THIEF IN THE NIGHT

DALE
Dislike: A second example of Lee Place chewing scenery in a debate with Gandalf being an exposition machine is pretty unnecessary. Redundant. Redundancies must be excised. I like that Thranduil is a dick but this can all wait until Bilbo gets there.
EREBOR
Like: I like this a lot, it's just how I'd imagined it, Bilbo sneaking off. Another bookish moment, and thus a victory.
DALE
Like: This is where Gandalf should've been reintroduced, as Bilbo sneaks in and sees him with Bard. I like this a lot, and once they get into the tent and Bilbo cuts the deal with the lords there, it's pitch-perfect, and easily in the top five best scenes in the film, because it's right out of the book.

THE CLOUDS BURST: EXTENSIVE EDITION, BECAUSE SERIOUSLY FOLKS, THIS CHAPTER BECOMES FOUR CHAPTERS

EREBOR GATES
Like: The parlay here plays out great, very bookish, and much how I imagined it. I like everyone here, all the main players, the dwarf versus elf taunts, Bard as a voice of reason, Bilbo admitting his gambit and Thorin losing his shit. I like that Roäc arrives and speaks in a language that Thorin and the dwarves understand but that we the audience don't. I like the arrival of the Dwarves of the Iron Hills. I like Dain, god help me (I think most problems with him and the dwarves stems from digital cameras, rather than film, instead of CGI. God knows ROTK had plenty of CGI wide shots.)
Like: I like the rumble, the quake, the were-worms breaching, Dain crying about the horns of hell, and orcs spewing forth. I like the dwarf charge, the phalanx, the last minute elven charge and everyone mixing it up. I like the ground-level battle and think Jackson succeeds here with the documentary camera style. I like the siege beasts and the orcs splitting the heroic armies into two which have to fall back. It doesn't feel like any of the other LOTR battles so far.
Dislike: They cut to what Azog is doing way too much. Him signalling the next big sweeping army “move” is fine, but they cut to reaction shots of him all the time, padding the length which is already too long.
Dislike: I dislike the fact that the surprise orc invasion has been telegraphed 9,000 ways when a surprise assault with only Misty Mountain adventure foreshadowing would have sufficed.
Dislike: I dislike that this isn't where the bats blacken the sky and swoop upon the battlefield. A clever edit could fix that.
DALE INVASION
Like: This feels a bit like Minas Tirith, but different in other ways because it's already a ruin, it's winter, these are just refugees fleeing. There's probably too much of it, but it's not a siege.
Like: Generally I like Bard's activities here, and I surprisingly like Thranduil's elk antler move and his being the last guy to fall back and one-man-armying those goblins at the door.
Dislike: They focus too much on Bard's kids, actually. That bit with the cart is pretty silly. After that they focus too much on Alfrid. We haven't got time for that shit, just give us some key bits to let us know Bard and Thranduil are fighting for their lives and move on.
EREBOR
Like: I really like Thorin's reticence to join the battle.
Like: Frankly I like the snow trolls. I like that northern battles are different than southern.
Dislike: I'd just like to mention that in my theoretical fan-edit, instances of the spoken name “Azog” will be switched to Bolg and “Bolg's” role will be reduced to that of a lieutenant. Bolg being a son of a dead orc lord is just as thematically appropriate as pointlessly resurrecting said orc lord to get a father/son relationship parallel.
Dislike: We get more cuts to Azog “directing traffic” here which are getting old quick. We'll get plenty of Azog in a minute, stop with the reaction shots.
Like: Thorin brooding and Dwalin calling him out is nice, though it lasts a bit long. But I like how dark he gets here, and I don't even mind the trippy “breaking the dragon hypnosis” sequence, though I'd probably cut it so it's close-ups on his face and not that silly gold floor from the preposterous dragon fight in the last movie, which I'd also perform major surgery on. The close-ups and the voices are okay, though, and the gold reflecting up at him.
Like: The rally to Thorin. I like that a lot. Look this battle didn't need to have an Erebor/Dale half as well as a later Ravenhill half, but I get that logistically it's a pretty epic battle that Bilbo “missing” wasn't going to do favors for. They could've ended the battle in the rally. But I love the rally, and the onlooking Bilbo and Gandalf in Dale, and the meet with Dain in the middle and the decision to hop on dwarven goats (awesome) and attempt to kill Azog.
RAVENHILL
Dislike: Out of the gate I want to say this is the most bloated element in all three films, and that's counting the ridiculous dragon fight and split narrative I hated so much in the last one … as well as the Osgiliath detour in LOTR that I've secretly learned to love over the years. I started keeping track of the time pretty quick here. So let's break it down more specifically.
Dislike: While I like that the second-half of the Battle of Five Armies consists of grudge match death-matches upon Ravenhill, they're way too long (and replete with dramatic slow-motion). A lot of further points won't be able to avoid repeating how it's too long.
Like: The set itself. I quite like Ravenhill's design, high location, the frozen element. It's a suitably stark, interesting place for a final death match. That's ONE final death match, not two that intercut and roll over and under each other like five times. But I really like the setting itself a lot.
1:30. One hour, thirty minutes. Note this, because these death matches, these climaxes, last 23 minutes longer and this is a movie that cut more importance scenes (cough, the funeral, cough).
Like: The ambush itself. I can live with this, with Thorin and Co. arriving up here to some resistance but Azog lying hidden.
Like: Legolas and Tauriel finally getting into the action.
Dislike: They have to bullshit with Thranduil about shit we don't care about, first.
Dislike: Tauriel's starry eyed glances upward toward Ravenhill.
Like: Fili and Kili together sneaking in, being the scouts again, that it's the last time, but they're spotlighted, and that not as literally, but more or less they die in a last ditch gambit in defense of Thorin.
Dislike: This slows things down so much. Then they intercut Thranduil back in surveying bodies which could easily take place you know, after the battle.
Dislike: Thranduil's bullshit conversation with Tauriel and their conflict in the middle of a much more important conflict. Stupid movie moment. Then Legolas steps in like “Dad, bro, uncool dude.” Continued Thranduil dickishness needed to end the second he told his elves to help the dwarves 20 minutes ago.
Like: Bilbo saying he's going up there. Though I'd have had to cut it the second he turns invisible because as cool as finally seeing elves in Ring-World is, these Wood-Elves wouldn't glow. Oh the purism!
Dislike: Alfrid in woman's guise. Cut this scene. We wouldn't need one last heroic moment from Bard if the battle wasn't being artificially extended and bloated to the point where it's so long you could possibly forget about him.
Like: Bilbo arriving and the execution of Fili. Very nicely done. A visceral punch in the guts. Or stab. Good DUEL FUEL. I'm really happy with the deaths themselves in this flick.
Dislike: It's another 10 minutes before Kili dies. There should not be that much time between the brothers dying. There shouldn't be 17 more minutes of deathmatches. But there somehow is. These duels. Aragorn killed Lurtz in minutes. Gandalf when he finally finds a good dueling range kills the Balrog in seconds. Éowyn kills the Witch-king in minutes. Sam maims Shelob in minutes. Thorin v. Azog Part III takes twenty minutes and it's intercut with a duel nobody cares about.
Like: The Thorin v. Azog duel itself, big mace versus sword, hopping and parrying on mountain slopes, tumbling down the hill onto the flat ice while other orc goons get in on it. Bilbo ducking horror bats, Dwalin axing goblins. This is good stuff, generally.
Like: The bats finally actually arrive and swoop on the lower battlefield. This is where Legolas and Tauriel should've arrived, right as the battle broke out, 30 minutes ago.
Love/Hate: Legolas riding that bat, man. I think I prefer his later superhero moment to this, but I'm strangely not as disdainful to this as I should be.
Dislike: Oh, I like the continued shots of Thorin fighting Azog just fine because they really put their hearts into it, but because it's intercut ten times more after this, I have to write “dislike” here.
Dislike: The necessity of Tauriel climbing the hill because it's mixed in with Thorin v. Azog, which deserves our attention. And Kili's not even dead yet so the duel to the death is missing half its fuel. A faster pace would solve a lot of these problems – get rid of instances of slow-motion, cut some of the over-the-top extreme shit. There's nothing wrong with Legolas and Tauriel “being there”, as in the books, elf archers indeed went up onto the arms of the mountain to counter the orcish ambush.
Like: Bilbo getting knocked out. Legolas raining arrows down from a high vantage, saving Thorin. I'd have probably left that to be a surprise moment, like, not showing him get up there.
Dislike: This Kili/Tauriel baggage. It was enough for a comaraderie showing as he saves an elf from a great bastard orc, then he dies, then Legolas gets revenge for them all without a stupid interspecies relationship.
Like: Kili's death itself. Suitably brutal and heartwrenching. Though again with the slow-motion. It's quite overused in this movie. Sudden, quick violence is more visceral and this pacing doesn't need to slow at this point.
1:44. Only fourteen minutes have passed since the Ravenhill death matches began. But there's eleven minutes left of it, which means there's 25 minutes of death match. That's like 15-20 minutes too long.
Like: Legolas running out of arrows. Legolas skewering a troll's brain with Orcrist.
Dislike: Using it as a battering ram somehow to topple that tower into a video-game-esque bridge that's a perfect place for a final duel to the death that takes too much time.
1:46. Legolas vs. Bolg. So video-game. But the real horror is that this fight is intercut with the actually important Thorin vs. Azog fight that matters. I'd recommend this fight be sped up. Skip the part where the troll topples the tower into a bridge and just pretend the bridge was always there as a structure. Speed things up. You can keep the part where midfight he has to “give” Orcrist back to Thorin, but then whatever you do don't slow-motion the part where he climbs the falling stones and kills Bolg – that part should be realtime speed so it looks superhuman, realistic, desperate and fast and brutally visceral.
1:49. Seriously it shouldn't have taken three minutes of Thorin's time. He's been dueling Azog since 1:37. Cut down Legolas's shit, cut out Tauriel's baggage. Pare it down.
Like: The final phase of the duel, on the ice that cracks under the ghetto ball & chain.
Like: Beorn riding an eagle in, hitting the ground and killing the entire ambush regiment by himself.
Dislike: The placement of Bilbo awakening – he should have woken up right when the eagles get there, so that “The Eagles are coming” makes more sense in context.
Dislike: Physics. The Azog slips underwater moment is kind of a nice “gotcha” moment but it leads to a moment where he bursts from the ice in a way that's just not possible. So I'd skip it, skip right from the distraction of the Eagles to Azog getting the jump on Thorin and the final killstrokes.

THE RETURN JOURNEY

RAVENHILL
1:53. The end of it is cool though, as Thorin in a haze witnesses victory below and the black blood of Azog stains the ice. But seriously this shit went on too long.
Like: Thorin's death scene. Sure it wasn't later on in the tent, but I think it's bookish enough (including some verbatim dialogue and stellar acting) that it works for me. It's intimate, the battle is over, and it has a nice contrast to Boromir where they have similar deaths, but one is an ending and the other is sort of a desperate beginning.
1:57. Tauriel fawns over dead Kili. Cut this shit. Thranduil continues to be kind of a douche. Cut this shit. Thranduil says some Philippa Boyens fan-wanky shit about Aragorn that's not subtle at all. Cut that shit. He shouldn't even be at Ravenhill and this is not even on-the-nose, it's absurd.
2:00. Phew, jesus, two hours since Smaug left that mountain. This phase of the story really only needed to be one hour long. “Act III.” (Its shortness is more because “Fire and Water” and the final two chapters are tiny little chapters).
Like: Bilbo sitting with Gandalf. I like the Company gathering at Thorin somewhat less even though it's part of the same scene, but the Bilbo & Gandalf part is stellar and setting the mundane against the extraordinary is instant win for me. This is a top five moment in the whole trilogy.
DALE & EREBOR
Like: The horns of Dale blowing. Though it's preposterously obvious that this is the beginning of a Special Extended Edition cut that's the all-important funeral scene and probably the coronation of Dain Ironfoot.
Like: Bilbo's last moment with Balin and the Company is brilliantly good. Like just how I read it. Perfectly acted. And the film at least succeeds in making looking at the Company missing those three deceased members kind of weird and unsettling. Which goes on to reward close-watchers with the same feeling when we find Balin's tomb.
GREAT ROAD
Like: These simple shots of Bilbo and Gandalf traveling are ideal and brief and lovely and real New Zealand and I have no complaints. The music is also really nice here. I was a bit bummed not to have Beorn walking with them or a quick stopover at Rivendell or even the Troll hole. No Elf-Friend declaration?

THE LAST STAGE

THE SHIRE
Like: Another perfect scene. Seriously all the closing scenes in this film are perfect, short, punchy, gorgeous, iconic scenes. Gandalf takes his leave, is in-the-know about the magic ring, says that wonderful book dialogue.
BAG-END
Like: Everything. The stream of buyers. Lobelia. The contract. His friend. His empty house. His Ring fix.
Dislike: Ironically as well done as it is, and it really is, those flashforwards to Old Bilbo are fueled by nostalgia and only serve to bloat the movie, though I can't see how I'd excise this one. But it is as redundant as the over-long prologue, and totally unnecessary.

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Nice. Can't really argue with much of that and I'd like to see the Fan-edit that he'd make.

One thing. Nobody has commented on Bilbos handkerchief. I loved that touch.