They got Girardi, A-Rod, by all reports Rivera, and Posada. And maybe maybe Pettite will be back, too.
Business as usual
Take me out to the ballgame!
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Sassafras
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If Andy Pettitte doesn't come back,
please Cashman, do not trade the farm for Santana ..... I do not want to give up Hughes, Kennedy, Cano or even Cabrera for Johann. I know he's only 28 but he's thrown a ton of innings over the past few years and last year he gave up 23 (or was it 33?) HRs and his peripherals were not so good.
Hot Stove report:
White Sox traded (P) Garland for Angels (SS) Orlando Cabrera.
Sox got (pale) hosed on this one.
please Cashman, do not trade the farm for Santana ..... I do not want to give up Hughes, Kennedy, Cano or even Cabrera for Johann. I know he's only 28 but he's thrown a ton of innings over the past few years and last year he gave up 23 (or was it 33?) HRs and his peripherals were not so good.
Hot Stove report:
White Sox traded (P) Garland for Angels (SS) Orlando Cabrera.
Sox got (pale) hosed on this one.
Ever mindful of the maxim that brevity is the soul of wit, axordil sums up the Sil:
"Too many Fingolfins, not enough Sams."
Yes.
Yeah, I saw that trade and kinda went "Huh, wah?"
Though I didn't check the contracts that the two players are under, to be fair. Isn't there some cash to the Sox, as well?
Of course, I have no idea what needs the White Sox has, or the Angels.
I just keep hoping that the Dodgers don't trade for anything. Don't trade for Santana, don't trade for Cabrera, don't don't don't!
I have the same kind of feeling about Santana. Be careful, he may be only 28 but he's thrown a ton and his peripherals went south a little. ( it was 33 HRs! ) I mentioned my concerns to the Faramonster and he had me look up some of the more esoteric peripherals and said that mostly Santana just had bad luck last year and he'll be as good as ever.
I dunno, I don't want to give up three starters from the Dodgers' roster for Santana, that's all.
Though I didn't check the contracts that the two players are under, to be fair. Isn't there some cash to the Sox, as well?
Of course, I have no idea what needs the White Sox has, or the Angels.
I just keep hoping that the Dodgers don't trade for anything. Don't trade for Santana, don't trade for Cabrera, don't don't don't!
I have the same kind of feeling about Santana. Be careful, he may be only 28 but he's thrown a ton and his peripherals went south a little. ( it was 33 HRs! ) I mentioned my concerns to the Faramonster and he had me look up some of the more esoteric peripherals and said that mostly Santana just had bad luck last year and he'll be as good as ever.
I dunno, I don't want to give up three starters from the Dodgers' roster for Santana, that's all.
Aside from a HR rate that was unlucky relative to his fly balls allowed last year, Santana had great peripherals last year! His K and walk rates are phenomenal. He's still the best pitcher in baseball in my opinion. edit: On second thought, his walk rate may not be quite 'phenomenal'. It's very good.
Doesn't mean any team should trade the farm for him, of course.
edit: Santana's K per game is 10.3, according to hardballtimes.com. In the AL among qualifiers that's behind only Erik Bedard at 11.7 and Kazmir at 10.4.
His walks per game is 2.3, good for 12th in the AL.
15.6% of his fly balls went for home runs last year, which was just about as bad as it gets in the AL. Some think a pitcher has little control over this number. Me, I'm not sure what I think. But the three previous seasons this number was around 11% for Santana. I think he was a bit unlucky with the home runs last year.
Doesn't mean any team should trade the farm for him, of course.
edit: Santana's K per game is 10.3, according to hardballtimes.com. In the AL among qualifiers that's behind only Erik Bedard at 11.7 and Kazmir at 10.4.
His walks per game is 2.3, good for 12th in the AL.
15.6% of his fly balls went for home runs last year, which was just about as bad as it gets in the AL. Some think a pitcher has little control over this number. Me, I'm not sure what I think. But the three previous seasons this number was around 11% for Santana. I think he was a bit unlucky with the home runs last year.
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Sassafras
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I appreciate you looking up the stats, Faramond
But ..... his WHIP has increased slightly over the past four years from 0.92 in 2004 to 1.07 last year (still phenomenal) which leads me to speculate that he might possibly be on the decline. I did say might
because I do know that he is one of the premier pitchers in mlb .... but unless it only takes money I prefer that we keep all of our young players.
You mentioned Kazmir and Bedard.
<drools>
I'd love to have either of those two in pinstripes. Especially Bedard. But I'm not fussy.
(I'm hoping the Orioles have a fire sale and we can somehow snatch him -- wishful thinking, I know)
PS: speculation is that the Garland/Cabrera move was so that the Angels could deal for Miguel Cabrera .... they desperately need more offense.
But ..... his WHIP has increased slightly over the past four years from 0.92 in 2004 to 1.07 last year (still phenomenal) which leads me to speculate that he might possibly be on the decline. I did say might
because I do know that he is one of the premier pitchers in mlb .... but unless it only takes money I prefer that we keep all of our young players.You mentioned Kazmir and Bedard.
<drools>
I'd love to have either of those two in pinstripes. Especially Bedard. But I'm not fussy.
(I'm hoping the Orioles have a fire sale and we can somehow snatch him -- wishful thinking, I know)
PS: speculation is that the Garland/Cabrera move was so that the Angels could deal for Miguel Cabrera .... they desperately need more offense.
Ever mindful of the maxim that brevity is the soul of wit, axordil sums up the Sil:
"Too many Fingolfins, not enough Sams."
Yes.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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A-Rod's contract is actually more likely to be over $300 million. He has apparrently negotiated a package that will pay him $30 million based on home run achievements. $6 million each for passing Mays, Ruth, Aaron, and Bonds, and an additional $6 million for setting the all-time home run record. They are calling them "historic events" since baseball generally prohibits bonuses based on statistics such as home runs.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
R O G E R R O G E R R O G E R
Ah yes the Mitchell Report and all of its unseemly side effects comes due today. I hope in addition to the players, the report lists coaches, managers, trainers, GMs, owners, league presidents and commisioners, who all aided and abetted the players. Or at least looked the other way.
This is the biggest blackeye for baseball since the Black Sox scandal, and thankfully it is finally about to end.
I have a long diatribe inside of me about this whole thing, but suffice it to say I equate this with players corking their bats. There is a large difference between eating healthy, working out and using substances like creatine, and using illegal drugs to gain an advantage. Maybe if they were safer and legal and everyone used them it would be different, but that isn't the case. It is a problem that needs to go away. No different than Steve Howe.
Ah yes the Mitchell Report and all of its unseemly side effects comes due today. I hope in addition to the players, the report lists coaches, managers, trainers, GMs, owners, league presidents and commisioners, who all aided and abetted the players. Or at least looked the other way.
This is the biggest blackeye for baseball since the Black Sox scandal, and thankfully it is finally about to end.
I have a long diatribe inside of me about this whole thing, but suffice it to say I equate this with players corking their bats. There is a large difference between eating healthy, working out and using substances like creatine, and using illegal drugs to gain an advantage. Maybe if they were safer and legal and everyone used them it would be different, but that isn't the case. It is a problem that needs to go away. No different than Steve Howe.
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Sassafras
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I also have a lengthy diatribe inside of me on this issue ... but I'll refrain for the sake of my sanity. (And yours)
Clemens is not a surprise. Nor is Pettitte.
Have you read the leaked list yet? You may be in for a few shocks.
One of my problems with this report is the fact that it smacks of McCarthyism. It's too little, too late and the *proof* is suspect at best. We all know that steroids in baseball has been ongoing probably since the late 80's and definitely since the 90's.
Thinking that this report will put an end to steroids in baseball is, imo, naive. PEDs work and there will always be a huge number of athletes who will try to gain any edge over the competition.
That's just the way it is.
Clemens is not a surprise. Nor is Pettitte.
Have you read the leaked list yet? You may be in for a few shocks.
One of my problems with this report is the fact that it smacks of McCarthyism. It's too little, too late and the *proof* is suspect at best. We all know that steroids in baseball has been ongoing probably since the late 80's and definitely since the 90's.
Thinking that this report will put an end to steroids in baseball is, imo, naive. PEDs work and there will always be a huge number of athletes who will try to gain any edge over the competition.
That's just the way it is.
Ever mindful of the maxim that brevity is the soul of wit, axordil sums up the Sil:
"Too many Fingolfins, not enough Sams."
Yes.
Well all drugs and their cousins will always be around. That will never change. The sport just can't afford to look the other way any longer. It will end up costing believability. Which will mar the game.
Honestly that last thing I want to see, is this to come down to who has the best formula like race car drivers and their fuel.
The owners, union and pretty much everyone is culpable in this. There needs to be steps to address the issue. No there will never be a total cure, but steps need to be continued to be taken.
There are multiple isses here. One is whether steroids should be used at all. The other is today's rules and laws.
They are still illegal in most cases, and that pretty much precludes any other discussion until that changes.
Mankind is a blip on the radar compared to the earth itself. Pharmaceuticals are a blip on humankind. We have no idea of any long term affects, with regards to genetics or anything else. I can't see the rewards of all this outwaying the risks.
Really what is the point? To get a few more home runs? To make more money? Raise revenues?
If all players are on an equal footing, then it will come down to talent and work. What else do you need?
Honestly that last thing I want to see, is this to come down to who has the best formula like race car drivers and their fuel.
The owners, union and pretty much everyone is culpable in this. There needs to be steps to address the issue. No there will never be a total cure, but steps need to be continued to be taken.
There are multiple isses here. One is whether steroids should be used at all. The other is today's rules and laws.
They are still illegal in most cases, and that pretty much precludes any other discussion until that changes.
Mankind is a blip on the radar compared to the earth itself. Pharmaceuticals are a blip on humankind. We have no idea of any long term affects, with regards to genetics or anything else. I can't see the rewards of all this outwaying the risks.
Really what is the point? To get a few more home runs? To make more money? Raise revenues?
If all players are on an equal footing, then it will come down to talent and work. What else do you need?
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Sassafras
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Couldn't agree more!Holbytla wrote:Bud Selig needs to step down. Man is he awful. He talks out of both sides of his mouth, and clearly has an agenda with punishing players regardless of reccomendations. Is he out to get Bonds or what?
Yet on the other hand he refuses to accept any culpability in this which is astounding.
You know, the more I think about it, the more I think that the entire report is a travesty. No players should have been named. None! After all, are we supposed to think that the two main witnesses were/ are the only drug suppliers in mlb? Absurd. This report will lead the majority (of the great unwashed) to believe that if no players on their team are mentioned then they must be untainted. Whereas anyone with half a brain is aware that many more are not listed than are. It is unfair, again imo, to publicly taint certain players without solid evidence.
After wading through 429 pdf pages (a real pain because they don't scroll that easily
) and reading the *evidence*, based upon the testimony of two questionable witnesses --- a clubhouse attendant and a former personal trainer, one of whom is facing charges 
--- there is no viable proof at all! -- it's all hearsay and is heavily weighted against players on three AL East teams. Sigh.
Let the feeding frenzy commence.
Ever mindful of the maxim that brevity is the soul of wit, axordil sums up the Sil:
"Too many Fingolfins, not enough Sams."
Yes.
Yeah I agree. I don't know what measuring stick they used to include players, but some of the way the names were included is laughable. Yet I saw no managers or owners being attached to any of this on a specific level.
But you knew after 20 months, there were names that were going to be dropped.
I haven't read the whole thing, but there is damning stories in there that could cause the feds to look into distribution issues.
Unless there is some type of indictments in this, I can't see how they will legally be able to do anything based solely on that tome of circumstantial evidence.
I think on the specific level the report failed to a large degree. The overall broad aspect of the report gave a good indication of the state of things, and maybe baseball wikk go from there and keep things better in line.
Maybe the name dropping was a way to prove their assertions of the state of the game, but I can't see any way baseball can use that info against anyone without further coroboration.
Loved how Bud shrugged off his own culpability.
But you knew after 20 months, there were names that were going to be dropped.
I haven't read the whole thing, but there is damning stories in there that could cause the feds to look into distribution issues.
Unless there is some type of indictments in this, I can't see how they will legally be able to do anything based solely on that tome of circumstantial evidence.
I think on the specific level the report failed to a large degree. The overall broad aspect of the report gave a good indication of the state of things, and maybe baseball wikk go from there and keep things better in line.
Maybe the name dropping was a way to prove their assertions of the state of the game, but I can't see any way baseball can use that info against anyone without further coroboration.
Loved how Bud shrugged off his own culpability.
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Sassafras
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Pompous twit!That's precisely why Mitchell did not recommend penalties for active players, though Selig did not rule any prospective punishment out.
"His report is a call to action," Selig said. "And I will act."
Mitchell also sidestepped the direct question from a reporter concerning the culpability of owners. He ignored it, in fact, proceeding instead to blather on about the questioning of "clubhouse personnel."
I fear that this entire thing will now be reduced to speculation on possible punishment for players presumed guilty.
And there's going to be a lot more of this in the next few weeks:
By naming names Mitchell has shot himself in the foot. All the press will focus on player denials, retraction, threats and counter-threats. It has diminished the real issue -- which is how to prevent further abuses in major league baseball.Clemens's Denial
Randy Hendricks, one of Roger Clemens's agents, just sent out a fierce statement, saying Clemens "vehemently denies allegations in the Mitchell report that he used performance-enhancing steroids."
Hendricks's release says that Clemens "is outraged that his name is included in the report basedon uncorroborated allegations of a troubled man threatened with federal criminal prosecution."
He says Brian McNamee "repeatedly denied thse current claims, including in June of this year when he was first contacted by federal investigators." The release states that McNamee "changed his story under the threat of federal criminal prosecution."
"I am at a total loss to understand how it is proper for federal prosecutorial authorities to use the threat of criminal prosecution to help in a private business investigation," said Clemens attorney Rusty Hardin.
Which, as you know, I do not think is possible.
Ever mindful of the maxim that brevity is the soul of wit, axordil sums up the Sil:
"Too many Fingolfins, not enough Sams."
Yes.
[OT but interesting to me at least]Holbytla wrote:but suffice it to say I equate this with players corking their bats.
Mythbusters did a baseball myths show and tested corking the bat. They found it's actually worse for players to cork a bat. The balls didn't go as far with corked bats.
http://mythbustersresults.com/episode81 (summarizes other myths as well)This myth operates under the assumption that cork-filled bats can be swung faster because of their lighter weight, and that the springiness of the cork could propel the ball farther. To eliminate the human factor of the myth, Adam and Jamie constructed a special batting rig and used a pressurized air cannon to launch the baseball at it. Tests showed that the cannon could launch the ball 80 miles per hour, which is the average speed of most MLB pitches. Regulation bats could propel the ball away at 80mph while corked bats could only propel the ball 40mph, half the speed of regulation bats. The reason was because cork bats have less mass to transfer force into the ball, and the cork actually absorbs some of the ball’s impact. The Mythbusters concluded that using a cork filled bat will not improve your performance (it will in fact hurt it), and the major league batters who were caught using cork-filled bats risked their careers for nothing.
[/OT]
Well not all of the good is gone from this, despit the bizarre ways things were done, and if I know Bud will continue to be done.
I think the spotlight shining so brightly on this will deter a lot of players.
And I did notice how Theo and company were protrayed as being "in the know". Yet the idiot still signed Gagne despite the lousy scouting report.
There is something to be said about rats squealing when on a sinking ship, but I also find it hard to believe all of this stuff is concocted. The more I think about this, it seems this is the only way baseball could show the fans they were going to act and gave names. This stuff would/will be subjected to cross-examination if it ever goes beyond the report level. Doing it this way basically allows baseball to toss names out without actually having to prove it.
This is all about baseball seeming like they are being proactive, and looking good to the fans.
The union has to be careful not to appear as anti-drug policy, so they will tread carefully and while protecting players.
eta: xposted with Eru.
Yeah I saw that. Yet players still do it and get punished for it.
What the players don't realize apparently is that you can adjust weight without having to go through that.
One of them used superballs instead of cork to produce a bounce efffect.
No idea if that works either, but they'll try anything to gain an advantage.
I think the spotlight shining so brightly on this will deter a lot of players.
And I did notice how Theo and company were protrayed as being "in the know". Yet the idiot still signed Gagne despite the lousy scouting report.
There is something to be said about rats squealing when on a sinking ship, but I also find it hard to believe all of this stuff is concocted. The more I think about this, it seems this is the only way baseball could show the fans they were going to act and gave names. This stuff would/will be subjected to cross-examination if it ever goes beyond the report level. Doing it this way basically allows baseball to toss names out without actually having to prove it.
This is all about baseball seeming like they are being proactive, and looking good to the fans.
The union has to be careful not to appear as anti-drug policy, so they will tread carefully and while protecting players.
eta: xposted with Eru.
Yeah I saw that. Yet players still do it and get punished for it.
What the players don't realize apparently is that you can adjust weight without having to go through that.
One of them used superballs instead of cork to produce a bounce efffect.
No idea if that works either, but they'll try anything to gain an advantage.
I think they grudgingly have to overlook all of this stuff. It is the way the game was in the era, and everyone from the trainers to the commissioner had a hand in it.
There is no way to determine who did and who didn't, so either blame everyone or no one. Well maybe except for people like Palmeiro that actually failed tests after they instituted a policy.
If Bonds gets any kind of sentence, they will Pete Rose him to be sure.
The whole Balco thing is what led to all of this unravelling.
I'm at the point now where I question Roger and his "retirements" and half seasons. Cycle on, cycle off?
Whether we like it or not, we are in the age of guilty until proven innocent.
There is no way to determine who did and who didn't, so either blame everyone or no one. Well maybe except for people like Palmeiro that actually failed tests after they instituted a policy.
If Bonds gets any kind of sentence, they will Pete Rose him to be sure.
The whole Balco thing is what led to all of this unravelling.
I'm at the point now where I question Roger and his "retirements" and half seasons. Cycle on, cycle off?
Whether we like it or not, we are in the age of guilty until proven innocent.