Different Cultural Approaches

For discussion of philosophy, religion, spirituality, or any topic that posters wish to approach from a spiritual or religious perspective.
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elengil
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Different Cultural Approaches

Post by elengil »

If this is a repeat topic, I apologize. Maybe Voronwë can move the post there, if so. Otherwise...

We've all felt culture shock from time to time. Sometimes we react with 'don't ever let that be part of my culture!' But sometimes we wish it was!!. I ran across this article which briefly touches on the way Inuit children are raised to deal with anger, and how their culture as a result is one in which emotions are controlled into adulthood. I really wanted to share it here

How Inuit Parents Teach Kids To Control Their Anger
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"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Inanna
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Re: Different Cultural Approaches

Post by Inanna »

Elengil, I really enjoyed reading that article. The principle is shared with the positive discipline tenet as well, but it’s amazing if the entire culture follows it!
'You just said "your getting shorter": you've obviously been drinking too much ent-draught and not enough Prim's.' - Jude
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elengil
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Re: Different Cultural Approaches

Post by elengil »

Here's a follow up on that original story. I'm glad for this one because I was wondering how a person not raised with the same Inuit sensibilities would attempt to implement their teaching. I wasn't sure if it really needed "the whole village" to make it work, or if children already not being raised that way could learn to respond to a new approach.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandso ... olds-anger

But I think part of what it really drove home was that we are innately storytelling beings! We respond to stories, even if we don't believe them, we want to hear them, we want to imagine them, we want to tell them!

It is pushing me more and more to try to explain to myself why I'm still not writing mine! And of course, the answer is starting to become "I don't know why!" Which means I'd better get my butt in gear!
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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elengil
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Re: Different Cultural Approaches

Post by elengil »

Didn't think this really warranted its own thread so using this one as it sort of fits.

https://www.archaeology-world.com/celti ... 200-years/

Was reading the above (which is fascinating) but it got me thinking, where is the line between archaeology and grave desecration? I don't mean arguing the distinction between carefully excavating, documenting, and researching graves vs straight up grave robbing.

I mean, how old does a grave have to be before it's considered fair game for research? How would any of us feel about archaeologists going into cemeteries and digging up graves? How old is old enough? 100 years? 200? Does it have to be an unknown grave vs. a marked one? What about tombs?

And if we attempt to set a distinction, are we going to apply it consistently or will we always try to explain why this one is okay to dig up, because of XYZ reason...?
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Re: Different Cultural Approaches

Post by Frelga »

From what I understand, it's a big question in archeology.

It is possible that I understand it because of Nicky Bliss, Mrs. Emerson's delightful pen sister.
His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, 'You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."

Terry Pratchett, Small Gods
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Inanna
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Re: Different Cultural Approaches

Post by Inanna »

Vicky Bliss?
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Frelga
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Re: Different Cultural Approaches

Post by Frelga »

Yeah, her. :D
His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, 'You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."

Terry Pratchett, Small Gods
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elengil
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Re: Different Cultural Approaches

Post by elengil »

I can understand bringing up bodies and graves that are stumbled across and would be destroyed otherwise - like when they're doing construction work or something. I think that was the case in the article I linked. And there was another tomb just recently uncovered in China under similar circumstances. It just got me thinking about all those dodgy gray areas, too.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Re: Different Cultural Approaches

Post by Maria »

The Kennewick man:
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch ... nally-over

The Native Americans who were related to him fought to get him reburied and it looks like they've won.
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Re: Different Cultural Approaches

Post by RoseMorninStar »

The Inuit articles were fascinating. We have new neighbors who built a house across the street. It's been an empty lot for the 30 years we've lived here & the new neighbors have 3 children in the 8-9 year age range. The parents are constantly swearing & yelling at them. It's rather unnerving. I cannot help but wonder what it will be like when they are 12, 16, or 18.

The question of the Celtic woman and Kennewick man is rather interesting. I realize some may feel my take on the subject is not respectful, but .. what a wonderful legacy/heritage to be able to pass along when one can no longer speak for themselves! The Kennewick man would likely have soon been lost entirely, swept away in a river. I understand the respect due, but I dunno, a proper reburial/return to ancestral lands after being studied?
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Re: Different Cultural Approaches

Post by narya »

My family tree goes back 13 generations in America on one branch, complete with identified grave sites and headstones for many of them. I would feel a little uncomfortable if someone, in the name of curiosity or Science, decided to dig up those family plots to examine the bones, put them in a storage unit, and place any surviving jewelry into display cases. Or worse, bulldozed up and sent to the garbage dump. When they were lovingly buried, their kin were not expecting that kind of future for them. Likewise with another branch of my family that does not have a written history and routinely gets dug up, stuck in a box, and studied. I realize they are just bones, yet it feels disrespectful to disturb them. Like defacing a piece of art in a temple that may have no meaning for the disrupter but great meaning to the people long ago who first expressed it.

As for saving a burial site about to be washed away or bulldozed away (as often happens in our city, built on the homes of mound builders) it is respectful to rebury them nearby, and to notify a representative of the extended family.
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Re: Different Cultural Approaches

Post by RoseMorninStar »

Kennewick man was found on the bank of the Columbia River. Those who found him presumed there had been a murder and that is when the investigation started. Everyone was surprised when they discovered how old he was. The bones could never have been 'returned' if they had not been identified. This was not the case of a desecrated grave a few hundred years old. He is believed believed to have lived 9,000 years ago.

Narya, I understand and respect your point of view. It is a valid one. There are far fewer remains/burial sites in the Americas than there are in other parts of the world. I would imagine that it's nearly impossible in some places for the living to continue living (build homes, plant crops, etc..) that would not disturb those who came before.

Is paleontology/the study of ancient human life inappropriate in all cases? I would imagine many grave sites, especially very old ones in which it would take a specialist to recognize and make sense of what remains, have been unknowingly disturbed and built, plowed, or paved over.

*edited to add. I have ancestors with identified graves in America that date back to the 1630's. Assuming a generation is roughly 25 years that would be about 15 generations. Kennewick man would have had at least 360 generations (possibly far more depending depending upon the average age of a 'generation'). The Celtic woman is much 'younger' at 2,200 years. Should that matter? I do not intend to be disrespectful .. just curious. I kinda look at it as another way of earlier generations ('elders') being able to continue telling us their story from which we can learn.
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Re: Different Cultural Approaches

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Listening to a podcast this morning on the topic of stolen items in British museums, and while that part was interesting the host of the particular episode was an Australian citizen who was born, I believe, in Singapore? And whose mother was Indian and I think he said his father was Irish? So he made this comment about how while there are differing views of British colonialism, he said without it he wouldn't exist.

... I mean... yes, that's true, but is that really a reason to think of it as anything other than brutal conquest based on the racist notion that white people had a right to brown people's lands and bodies?

Yes, I wouldn't exist without it, but a whole lot of people who don't exist today because of colonialism would have existed. I guess it's not so much that he put forth the comment - it's the idea of it being used to justify the past. Well without some Museum stealing this object and placing it in their collection it might have been destroyed. Well yes, maybe it might have been. LOTS of historical things have been destroyed. Lots of historical things have been destroyed by those same museums who didn't see the value in them, or by people who felt literal object was only secondary to the importance of actually studying and recording the object, and then leaving the object itself to degrade and disappear (lots of Egyptology fails at this, apparently).

I just get irritated when people try to put some kind of fake positive spin on something that was fundamentally bad.

Or maybe I'm just in a fowl mood this morning because I've pinched or pulled something and can't walk right. :rage:
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Re: Different Cultural Approaches

Post by Frelga »

Yeah, that's bull. One might say that I wouldn't exist if the Holocaust didn't force my grandfather to flee Poland, but the level of narcissism required to argue that my existence was worth it would be breathtaking.

Hope you feel better, elengil! (I had a spasm in my lower back yesterday that I felt in my teeth. Why are bodies like that?)
His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, 'You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."

Terry Pratchett, Small Gods
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elengil
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Re: Different Cultural Approaches

Post by elengil »

Frelga wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:47 pm Yeah, that's bull. One might say that I wouldn't exist if the Holocaust didn't force my grandfather to flee Poland, but the level of narcissism required to argue that my existence was worth it would be breathtaking.
Glad it's not just me. I was all yeah, I'm not putting myself on that pedestal...
Hope you feel better, elengil! (I had a spasm in my lower back yesterday that I felt in my teeth. Why are bodies like that?)
Age. Clearly I am not an elf! Heck, I'm barely an adult in Hobbit years. Sometimes I feel too old to even be in Human years... :roll:

It feels a tad better walking it out, but not much.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Re: Different Cultural Approaches

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Definitely not just you!

I hope both of you continue to feel better!
"Among the tales of sorrow there are yet some in which amid weeping there is joy and under the shadow of death light that endures."
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