The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

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N.E. Brigand
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Re: The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

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Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 1:00 pm The DOJ has to to defend a lawsuit like that. It doesn't mean that Garland agrees with the actions taken. Our entire system would fall apart if the DOJ failed to to defend a lawsuit like that.
Why? Why can't they just say: "The plaintiffs are correct: what Trump and Barr did was wrong," pay up, and promise that they will never again defend such egregiously wrong behavior?

When someone has done something wrong, the right thing to do is apologize and make amends, not to act defensively.

What happened on Lafayette Square was wrong, wasn't it? Biden was correct to describe it as wrong, wasn't he?
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Re: The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

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Yes, I think what they did was wrong. Politically, Biden was right to describe it as wrong. I haven't looked at close enough to say whether I think that they should be held legally liable for the actions they took, but I have looked at enough to determine that the arguments that they are making legally make sense, even if they don't full agree, and even if they don't really want to win. In a circumstance like this, if the Justice Department of a succeeding administration can't be counted on to defend a lawsuit like this, our whole system of a peaceful and orderly transition -- already so strongly under threat from the actions of the former president and some of his cronies -- is strongly threatened.
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Re: The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

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This goes back to our earlier discussion about the presumption of regularity. I just don't see the problem with a new administration deciding not to defend the bad actions of the preceding administration. The president and attorney general can't hurt people just because they feel like it -- and that principle is what's at stake here.

And consider this: following the crowd control measures that were used to clear Lafayette Square so Trump could have his photo op, the official line was that tear gas was not used. But just yesterday, an attorney representing D.C. police admitted that was not true. Almost a year later.

Lying about what happened shows consciousness of guilt. They knew what they did was wrong. What else are they still covering up?

Trump and Barr gassed people on a whim. They wanted to hurt people. Trump even praised the brutality shortly after it happened. That's indefensible, and that's what they're being sued for. The Dept. of Justice should say, "Those actions were wrong, and we're not going to defend them because they have nothing to do with protecting the President."
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Re: The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

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Actually, what they said was, those actions were wrong, but the lawsuit should not continue because it is contrary to U.S Supreme Court precedent as the actions, as wrong as they were, were still taken in a valid exercise of executive action, it would set an incorrect precedent to allow the lawsuit to continue under those circumstances, and the chance of continuing harm is non-existent because we know that what was done was wrong and will not be acting that way.
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Re: The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

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I don't know. This feels a lot like qualified immunity to me.
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Re: The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

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Good point. And I didn't say that I agreed with their reasoning, just that I understood why they were making the arguments that they are making. If I get a chance to take a closer look at the filings I might comment more, but I wanted to say that I appreciate your position on this.
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Re: The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

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And I yours. (Also I think many or even most in the professional legal commentariat agree with your analysis.)
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Re: The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

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That's not always something to be proud of.

Just sayin'. ;)
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Re: The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

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In Texas this weekend, the Republican controlled legislature tried to pass a voter restriction law that, among other things, would make it illegal for someone to drive more than two non-family members to the polls -- even though it would be legal to drive those same people anywhere else.

The bill, which passed the Texas Senate late Saturday night, was thwarted last night when Democrats in the Texas House walked out of the chamber with only an hour to go in the session, leaving the House without a quorum as time ran out. There is talk about the governor calling a special session to get this law passed, though.
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Re: The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

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You know what's really weird about the TX GOP's behavior? They did really well in the 2020 election. If there was rampant fraud in TX that tipped the 2020 elections in TX and that rampant fraud must now be countered with these measures, what does it say about the legitimacy of those who won TX 2020 elections? Are they feeling guilty or insecure about their own victories? If so...why?

I realize that the TX GOP might be in the grip of some sort of mass hysteria and incapable of thinking that clearly right now. Or Trump's got fundraising by the shorthairs so they have to buy into his delusions about the 2020 outcome in order to fund their campaigns but I still feel like the question should be asked.
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Re: The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

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Nonono it's only fraud if Democrats win. If Republicans do, it's not fraud.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Re: The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

Post by Túrin Turambar »

One of the (many) strange things about the 2020 election conspiracy theory is that Texas' cities swung blue by almost identical margins to Phoenix and Atlanta. If there was something fishy going on in GA and AZ, the same thing must have been happening in TX.
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Re: The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

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What a difference a year makes. Today, President Biden heads to Oklahoma to mark the 100th anniversary of the Tulsa race massacre, in which 100s of African-Americans were killed and flourishing Greenwood District (known as 'Black Wall Street') was destroyed, with economic consequences that still resonate today. Last year Trump scheduled a campaign rally at Tulsa on June 19 (despite concerns about Covid), causing outrage that he would hold a rally on Juneteenth at the site of one of the worst race massacre's in the nation's history. Eventually he was forced to move it by a day. (In the 30-day period after the rally, the rate of new COVID-19 cases in Oklahoma more than tripled. Former GOP presidential candidate Herman Cain, one of the most prominent African-American Republicans, almost certainly contracted Covid-19 at the rally and passed away a month later.)
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Re: The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

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Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:03 pm What a difference a year makes. Today, President Biden heads to Oklahoma to mark the 100th anniversary of the Tulsa race massacre, in which 100s of African-Americans were killed and flourishing Greenwood District (known as 'Black Wall Street') was destroyed, with economic consequences that still resonate today.
I want to highlight that point about how the actions of a century ago can indeed result in continuing disparities today.
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Re: The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

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New from the White House:

Memorandum on Establishing the Fight Against Corruption as a Core United States National Security Interest

A bit from the introduction:
Corruption threatens United States national security, economic equity, global anti-poverty and development efforts, and democracy itself. But by effectively preventing and countering corruption and demonstrating the advantages of transparent and accountable governance, we can secure a critical advantage for the United States and other democracies.

In issuing this National Security Study Memorandum, I establish countering corruption as a core United States national security interest. My Administration will lead efforts to promote good governance; bring transparency to the United States and global financial systems; prevent and combat corruption at home and abroad; and make it increasingly difficult for corrupt actors to shield their activities.
Contrast with the previous White House occupant who, among other things, had said that it shouldn't be a crime in the U.S. for someone to pay bribes in foreign countries.

(I like David Frum's suggestion that one of the first things the Biden administration could do to fight corruption is to publicly reveal all Donald Trump's sources of income.)
Last edited by N.E. Brigand on Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

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Yesterday Senator Kyrsten Sinema, Democrat of Arizona, defended the existence filibuster as follows:
The filibuster was not created to accomplish one thing or another. It was created to bring together members of different parties to find compromise and coalition. And when you think about our Founding Fathers, when they created the Senate, with two members of every state regardless of population size, with elections staggered every six years so that a third of the body is up for election every two years, it was designed to be a place where you cool the passions of the House, where you work together to find compromise, and importantly, where you protect the rights of the minority from the majority, regardless of which party is in the majority at the time.
This piece in New York Magazine explains how almost every word Sinema said, amazingly, is wrong:

The Fake History of the Filibuster Won't Die

Image

"In sum, the Founders did not create the filibuster. It emerged accidentally, was changed repeatedly, and was not 'designed' for any purpose, and most certainly not to give the minority party a veto. It’s no more true than George Washington chopping down a cherry tree. It’s a story people made up to rationalize a system that nobody invented because nobody ever would create a system like this on purpose."
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Re: The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

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So Vladimir Putin wants Americans to become vegetarians?
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Re: The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

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A) It would be helpful if you could provide a link or at least explain what you are referring to.

B) Some Americans already are vegetarians/vegans, and it wouldn't be a bad thing in many different ways if more joined us. But that is perhaps a topic for a different discussion. Or discussions.
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Re: The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

Post by N.E. Brigand »

N.E. Brigand wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:49 pm
Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:03 pm What a difference a year makes. Today, President Biden heads to Oklahoma to mark the 100th anniversary of the Tulsa race massacre, in which 100s of African-Americans were killed and flourishing Greenwood District (known as 'Black Wall Street') was destroyed, with economic consequences that still resonate today.
I want to highlight that point about how the actions of a century ago can indeed result in continuing disparities today.
In the "Echo Chamber" thread, I noted one California's newspaper's experiment to see what happens when they reduced the amount of print given to national news. So by highlighting what is local news for me, this could be a crossover with that thread: the Akron Beacon Journal reports that Monday, in the upscale Akron suburb of Hudson, the American Legion hosted a Memorial Day ceremony, and a featured speaker was a retired Army colonel named Barnard Kemter, a 1962 graduate of Hudson High School. Kemter devoted part of his eleven-minute speech to a history of the holiday, including a two-minute section about the role of African-Americans in Charleson in its creation.

The events' organizers, who had reviewed Kemter's speech in advance and asked him to excise that portion, cut the mike as he delivered these paragraphs:
More importantly than whether Charleston’s Decoration Day was the first, is the attention Charleston’s Black community paid to the nearly 260 Union troops who died at the site. For two weeks prior to the ceremony, former slaves and Black workmen exhumed the soldiers’ remains from a hastily dug mass grave behind the racetrack’s grandstand and gave each soldier a proper burial. They also constructed a fence to protect the site with an archway at the entrance that read "Martyrs of the Race Course."

The dead prisoners of war at the racetrack must have seemed especially worthy of honor to the former slaves. Just as the former slaves had, the dead prisoners had suffered imprisonment and mistreatment while held captive by white southerners.

Not surprisingly, many white southerners who had supported the Confederacy, including a large swath of white Charlestonians, did not feel compelled to spend a day decorating the graves of their former enemies. It was often the African American southerners who perpetuated the holiday in the years immediately following the Civil War.

African Americans across the South clearly helped shape the ceremony in its early years. Without African Americans, the ceremonies would have had far fewer in attendance in many areas, thus making the holiday less significant.

My generation grew up listening to the famous radio personality Paul Harvey. Paul would say at the end of his broadcast, "And now you know the rest of the story." And now you know the rest of the story about the origin of Memorial Day.
We are apparently still fighting the Civil War. As William Faulkner wrote: The past is never dead. It's not even past.
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Re: The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

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Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:34 pm A) It would be helpful if you could provide a link or at least explain what you are referring to.

B) Some Americans already are vegetarians/vegans, and it wouldn't be a bad thing in many different ways if more joined us. But that is perhaps a topic for a different discussion. Or discussions.
Just a bit of levity. I have nothing against vegetarianism! Earlier this week, one of the world's largest meat producing companies, JBS, which plays a large role in the supply of beef to U.S. retailers, was hacked and temporarily shut down by a criminal group alled REvil. This has resulted in a few days' disruption in the U.S. beef supply chain, and may briefly make it harder to get hamburgers from some sources, like McDonald's. Like many such ransomware organizations, including the one that shut down a U.S. pipeline a few weeks ago, REvil operates out of Russia, with the tacit approval of the Russian government. There is even some suspicion that both attacks were approved in advance by Putin in order to undermine the Biden presidency (by somewhat immiserating Americans via shortages).

In the U.S., at least, there is some tendency to associate vegetarianism with the left, and Joe Biden's predecessor Donald Trump in particular was famously known as a fan of burgers, so it would be ironic if it was Putin, upon whom Trump at times seemed to dote, who was making it harder for Americans to eat them.
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