The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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Primula Baggins
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by Primula Baggins »

Oh. My. God.

Since it’s a public post on Facebook, could you post the link? I would like to share this but would rather not search for it through my own Facebook account.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Actually, the post where I found it was not public; the poster had cut and pasted the original post.

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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by Primula Baggins »

OK. It’s mainly Tom I want to share it with, so I’ll cut and paste it into an email to him. Thanks.

And may I say this is terrifying....
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by yovargas »

Where did this poster get this information if it is not publicly available yet? Or did I misunderstand and it is publicly available?

Reading through that, my main thought was that none of that would bother Trump's supporters, even if they could be convinced it was true.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Yov, the indictment is publicly available. I've read through it but as you can see from the summary there is a lot there,

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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Here's a link to the indictment: http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2018/images/07/1 ... ctment.pdf

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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by River »

yov, the indictment is publicly available. https://www.justice.gov/file/1080281/download . You can draw your own conclusions. I find it telling that the only response Trump can muster is to blame Obama. Of course, the caveats are Trump's not exactly known for being thoughtful and articulate in his tweets AND an indictment is only the prosecution's side of the story. It got stamped b a grand jury but prosecutor's are not obligated to present potentially exculpatory evidence to a grand jury. And the chances of these people seeing trial are very slim. But it sets up the case for Americans who get indicted for their involvement, because unless they flee for a place that doesn't have an extradition treaty with the US, they likely will get arrested and tried (or offered a plea deal).

Also, remember: the RNC also got hacked. Nothing was released because they were on the side Russia picked. I doubt their material was any less embarrassing for the GOP than the DNC's was for the Democrats. So I bet, because Russia isn't actually an ally of ours and does not have our best interests at heart, that that stolen RNC material is being held as kompromat. It sounds insane. But after what we learned yesterday, it could be true.
Primula Baggins wrote: And if there's one congressional candidate who benefited from the Russians, there are going to be more. I wonder how far it will go?
I wonder too. And I wonder if this drive in the House to smear the DoJ and FBI (which is a really weird thing for the GOP to be doing, if you think about it...those guys typically like to cast themselves as law enforcement's best buddies) is they don't know who's implicated and who isn't and since so many had their hands in the tainted cookie jar(s) they're all panicking. Maybe some thought they could escape by retiring.

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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by yovargas »

Gotcha, I misunderstood your post.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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That there was a Russian conspiracy does not surprise me, it seems fairly evident. But how much did Trump & Co. know? I am not trying to make excuses for Trump, he (and his family) strike me as the type of person(s) who will do whatever it takes to 'win' and doesn't particularly care to ask questions. So, let's say Manafort, Bannon, or Stone told Trump they could promise him a win, and that he only has to to say (for example) in public, "Russia, if you're listening I hope you can find Hilary's missing e-mails" but if Trump never asked WHY he should say that particular line.. is he still culpable as a conspirator? It doesn't matter to me. As far as I am concerned, someone who is running for Presidency SHOULD have been wise enough to know what he was doing was wrong whether he claims he knew what was going on or not. If he didn't know he's a fool (and isn't qualified/is too stupid to be president) and if he did know he's a traitor.

I am terribly interested in who the congressional candidate is. From the behavior of Sessions, Nunes, Gowdy, and several others, I wouldn't be surprised if this were an 'open secret'. However, if this conspiracy reaches that level, and is of that magnitude, how can we, as a nation, overcome it? Trump & Co are doing an amazing job of destroying trust in our institutions, our security and judicial systems. He's in the process of turning his base into Pro-Putin NATO haters. Haters of US intelligence. And it's working.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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You are criminally liable if you were willfully blind to the activity you were part of.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by RoseMorninStar »

River wrote:You are criminally liable if you were willfully blind to the activity you were part of.
I would imagine the 'willfully blind' might be difficult to prove. I've heard Trump mention using couriers (never email). There were some interestingly coincidental airport alignments with Dimitri Rybolovlev/Russian Fertilizer king, who purchased a property from Trump (sight unseen) in 2008 for far more than it was worth (2 1/2x more) & tore it down without ever stepping foot in it. The property had mold. Sounds like money laundering/Russian connections going back pretty far.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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Here's an "unrolled" thread detailing Roger Stone's dealing with GRU and WikiLeaks. It's hard to argue that this isn't shadier than a beach umbrella, but is it actually illegal?

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1018 ... 69888.html
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I think it is a good bet that Stone is going to get indicted. Probably more likely than anyone else, but my gut feeling is that he will not be the only one. We'll see.

And I think the Freedom Caucus saber-rattling about impeaching Rosenstein only makes it more likely. I think ink they are screwing around with the wrong people. And if it turns out that the unnamed congressional candidate is one of them (as I think is possible if not likely) ... .

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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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V, is it receiving stolen property? (If proven, etc.)
His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, 'You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."

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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Could be, among other things. I'm not going to speculate, other than to say that these folks are very diligent.

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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by RoseMorninStar »

What goes through my head is that if a congressional candidate knew to ask for this information, it would seem that it was pretty much an 'open secret' and may implicate many American politicians/those involved with campaigns in collusion with foreign actors to influence our elections. This was a notice to whomever these people are to lawyer up.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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Nate Silver is projecting Michael Avenatti as the Democratic candidate. I would assume that this is a joke, but it's 2018 so who knows. :D
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Democratic candidate for what? And where are you seeing that?

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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by RoseMorninStar »

I heard someone (a TV anchor) ask him if he was considering running. I thought of you, Voronwë. I hope he doesn't. We don't need another 'personality' in our highest office. I will say, however, at least he's smarter than the dolt we've got.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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V, candidate for presidency.
Projected 2020 presidential nominees:
Republican Party—Donald Trump
Democratic Party—Michael Avenatti
Innovation Party—"Reeve", a 35-year-old U.S.-born surrogate body with a 3D-printed duplicate of Elon Musk's brain surgically implanted within him.
I put in the :D to indicate that I did read it as a joke. But yeah, it's 2018 so.
His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, 'You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."

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