Escaping the Echo Chamber

[RoseMorninStar]

The best, most reliable way to cure bigotry is to get expose bigots to the people they hate. It leads to genuine change.

.

Citation needed.

All it does is expose vulnerable people to bigots who hate them.

Me.

I was homophobic as a young adult. Then I found out one of my friends was gay. Suddenly gay people weren't "other", they were my buddy Gary. It was like a light switch.

Good for you (and I also sincerely mean it) and I'd also like to believe it's true.. and always thought that would be the case, but sadly have found otherwise. I know people who I had never known to be racist but after they moved to an area which had a large population of Hispanics they have become extremely bigoted and downright hateful toward Hispanics, or were fine with black people until black people tried moving into their town or neighborhood, so unfortunately that change can go both ways.

There are people who claim not to be racist because they 'have a black friend who is OK' or claim they do not have a problem with black people (or xyz) yet still believe a race war or 2nd civil war needs to be fought (by some accounts about 1/3 of Americans feel this way.) I don't know if many of you have lived in an area where 96% of the population is homogeneous (white), but I've lived in such areas all of my life. Sadly, such people aren't changing any time soon. The more 'others' move into 'their territory' the more threatened they feel. They are perhaps fine with a few token Asians, Hispanics, Blacks, or Jews .. as long as they 'stay in their own place'. I'm not so sure I could say the same for LGBTQ, Muslims, or 'liberals'. My hubby works with people who believe in this upcoming 'war' and I recently asked him about it.. like.. what is their objective? Since he is just about the only Democrat where he works (and is currently not working due to COVID), and as such he rarely discusses politics, but he hears plenty. He says this upcoming 'war' is against not only people of color, Jews, LGBTQ, atheists, and Muslims, but all liberals who believe in such inclusiveness and liberal indoctrination. We're all 'antifa communists' to them.

My hubby, who is not racist, recently came with me when I dropped our dog off at the home of the groomer. I had never mentioned that she was black and he was blown away and said, 'Wow, she's really brave for living here." If you are of color and driving through our town (or many of the nearby towns) you will almost certainly be stopped by police. There was a young (black) woman selling cleaning supplies door-to-door in our neighborhood. I had been working out in the yard and I was talking to her and police pulled up and told her she wasn't safe here and suggested she leave. Someone must have called the police because I live in a quiet country neighborhood and they don't come here unless they've been called. I don't know if this is common in other areas of the country but the dog whistle 'code' around here seems to be 'Back the Badge' flags and signs.

[Frelga]

There are people who claim not to be racist because they 'have a black friend who is OK'

What's funny is that I tend to believe the "best friend" part. Some of my best friends growing up were antisemites. There just wasn't any other option if I was going to have friends. And they really were good friends to me. They had my back and stood by me, and we shared things that one only can with childhood best friends. And occasionally they said something awful, although not directed at me specifically. Or they didn't think it was.

In college, my group of friends was almost exclusively Jewish, except for those old best friends. In part, it was because we were all exploring this new world of religion together in ways that was impossible a few years earlier. But mostly, it was because I didn't have to deal with that other crap when I was around them.

So yeah, it's totally possible to care about an individual and retain your prejudice about the group. One can spend twenty years posting with yov, and know him for an awesome person he is, and still not come to the logical conclusion that maybe fighting to make sure he can never be happily married is not a nice thing to do.

[Túrin Turambar]

I find that bigots are often really good at separating the group they dislike from individuals within the group they know. E.g. they don't like black people, but don't think of their black co-worker Bob as a black person. Not hard bigots, perhaps, but certainly soft ones.

[River]

The bigots who are willing to carve out exceptions for individuals are the ones who can be reached through exposure. They've got the room in their heads start recognizing that those individuals they make exceptions for might be more representative of whatever group they've been vilifying and maybe they should adjust their thoughts and actions accordingly. The other ones, the hard bigots...that's another issue. There's work they have to do on themselves before they're ready to spend quality time with those they are bigoted against. But I suspect that this type is outnumbered. If they weren't, the arc of the moral universe could not bend towards justice.

[River]

So this is interesting. Not sure where to put it, but this thread seemed like a good fit. It's about a group of Wisconsin dairy farmers who decided to learn Spanish to better manage their immigrant staff and next thing they knew they'd started up a NGO that sends dairy farmers to Mexico to learn the culture and meet their employees' families: US election 2020: The farmer helping Mexican immigrants. Initially, they were planning to just learn language and culture. The family meets, well:

Fifteen farmers joined on the first trip, which included classes in the morning and in the afternoon. On one of their free days, it occurred to one of the farmers that they could go meet the relatives of their Mexican workers - a visit their Latino employees can't risk.

My parents are from Iowa. I have a lot of family ties to the Midwest. The decision to make an immersion trip to Mexico is a little surprising - active farmers like to stay close to their farms and let their wives and kids go off and do things - but having made that move the decision to go seek out the moms of their employees is really only the most logical thing.

[Sunsilver]

When Desmond Tutu became bishop of Johannesburg, the office went along with a very nice house in a white area of the city.

He invited both white and black children over to play in the swimming pool, so the kids could see the other races weren't the awful people their parents claimed they were.

He also chaired the Truth and Reconciliation committee, which investigated human rights abuses committed by both pro and anti-apartheid groups.

Of all the people on this planet, I think he's probably the most knowledgeable about how to bring people together. He also tried to help reconcile protestants with Catholics in Ireland, and Israelites and Palestinians in the Middle East.

It should be noted that he has met with heavy criticism from many groups throughout his life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Tutu

[RoseMorninStar]

Oh River, thank you for that. Stories like that are much needed. I wish there were more of this.

I'd never heard of the town, Waumandee, but I guessed what part of the state it was and I was pretty close, within about 50 miles. Minus the 'blue' cities of Milwaukee and Madison, the Southwest corner of the state is the most 'purple'. Relatively speaking, there are more organic farmers in that area who seem a bit more open to new ideas.

[N.E. Brigand]

There are people who claim not to be racist because they 'have a black friend who is OK'

What's funny is that I tend to believe the "best friend" part. Some of my best friends growing up were antisemites. There just wasn't any other option if I was going to have friends. And they really were good friends to me. They had my back and stood by me, and we shared things that one only can with childhood best friends. And occasionally they said something awful, although not directed at me specifically. Or they didn't think it was.

In college, my group of friends was almost exclusively Jewish, except for those old best friends. In part, it was because we were all exploring this new world of religion together in ways that was impossible a few years earlier. But mostly, it was because I didn't have to deal with that other crap when I was around them.

So yeah, it's totally possible to care about an individual and retain your prejudice about the group. One can spend twenty years posting with yov, and know him for an awesome person he is, and still not come to the logical conclusion that maybe fighting to make sure he can never be happily married is not a nice thing to do.

In some of the antiracist training we took at work, this analogy was used: If you were driving and accidentally hit someone crossing the street, would you defend yourself by saying: 'Some of my best friends are pedestrians'?

Imperfect like all analogies, but good enough to start some people thinking.

[N.E. Brigand]

Apologies if someone mentioned this already, but here in the U.S., the nation's divisions are often illustrated with blue and red maps showing the political results in each state. This study apparently finds that exposure to such maps make people more polarized compared to purple maps that show the differences on a scale of gradations rather than as a binary division.

[RoseMorninStar]

Apologies if someone mentioned this already, but here in the U.S., the nation's divisions are often illustrated with blue and red maps showing the political results in each state. This study apparently finds that exposure to such maps make people more polarized compared to purple maps that show the differences on a scale of gradations rather than as a binary division.

OH! I LOVE this idea! I wish it were implemented. It might make me feel not quite so much an aberration in my county.

I also love the color purple, but I digress...

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I like that!

[RoseMorninStar]

Here's a graphic of the purple map. Data portrayal matters.

[N.E. Brigand]

I have to say it is just wild to hear people in their 80s, whom I always thought of as nice people to be sure, but people whom I would have described a couple years ago as nearly the opposite of "woke," casually using terms like "BIPOC" that almost no one had heard of just six months ago, and as far as I can tell, completely sincerely having dedicated themselves to anti-racist initiatives. Change is possible.

[River]

I've seen people on Facebook take a complete 180 on the Black Lives Matter movement since 2014. Gone from "Idiots are blocking traffic, how dare they" to "Rip it out by the roots, guys. I'm with you! Let's see those statues tumble!" It's not just possible, it's got momentum.

[Frelga]

People who marched for civil rights in the 60s are now in their 80s if they were young then.

[N.E. Brigand]

People who marched for civil rights in the 60s are now in their 80s if they were young then.

A totally fair point! If I seemed to be suggesting that people of that age can't hold racially sensitive views, that wasn't my intention, and I apologize. It was an "old dogs can learn new tricks" observation, really, and particular to the specific people with whom I was interacting.

[Frelga]

NE, my comment was in the tempus fugit line and I didn't mean to criticize you.

And now we know what we meant.

[N.E. Brigand]

As a number of people observed: tonight, Fox New host Tucker Carlson castigated Joe Biden for having supported the Iraq War, but Carlson fails to mention that he also supported the Iraq War. So did Donald Trump, but six years later he said that Nancy Pelosi should have impeached George Bush for starting that war.

Chris Hayes today argues that it's good that a large portion of the left and right have reached this consensus, and suggests that in 20 years, most people will describe Trump's Covid response similarly. (The death counts are similar. Or to note another comparison, as someone else pointed out today: more Americans have died from Covid-19 (243,000) as the number of Japanese citizens (226,000 is the high end count) who died from the nuclear bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined.)

My point being that the surest tool to breach the bubble is time. Not a very original point, to be sure.

[N.E. Brigand]

This Nov. 5 article by Matt Yglesias attempts to get some on the left recognize what may be one of their own bubbles:

Trump’s gains with Hispanic voters should prompt some progressive rethinking

A Democratic Congressman from Arizona, who is Hispanic and who won his race, was asked on the day after the election what lessons he could offer Democrats in other districts, where the Latinx vote shifted towards Republicans this year.

He responded that the first thing they should do was to stop using the term "Latinx." Few Hispanics even know that term, and even fewer (just 3%) use it to describe themselves. It's been imposed on the community by academia, and is mostly used by white liberals. As Yglesias says, that alone doesn't explain the shift, but it's probably a symptom of a broader misunderstanding.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Thank you.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk