Roe v Wade has been overturned. How do you feel about that?

[N.E. Brigand]

While I think what the Court did just stinks, and some people are going to suffer for a time, in the long run, I suspect it backfires.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by this?

Republican politicians haven't been talking very much about the Texas abortion ruling. That's because they largely only care about abortion as a cause to energize their base. Also Americans oppose overturning Roe v. Wade 58% to 32%.

Actually banning abortion takes away the cause that motivates the Republican base while energizing everyone else.

Or so I suspect.

(Edited to add: Both sides in this argument have a point. Lots of people genuinely oppose abortion on moral grounds. But also it didn't really become a salient political issue until several years after Roe was decided. There were evangelicals who supported abortion nrights. And the next justice to be nominated to the Supreme Court after that decision was John Paul Stevens in 1975. As far as I can tell, there was zero discussion about how his addition to the court would affect abortion rights, and he was confirmed 98-0.)

Also since I mentioned California gubernatoria candidate Larry Elder above, I'll just note here that he said slaveholders should have been compensated for the loss of their slaves following the Civil War.

[Frelga]

I saw screen shots of the snitch website. I had thought that it would have structured input for names, etc., making it easy to weed out fake entries. But the snitch-to-be is invited to fill in a free form box describing the alleged law violation. It would still be easy to filter for complaints against Abbott, e.g., but less obvious frivolous entries would be much harder.

But the site is going down. For now.


GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘whistleblowing’ website

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Meanwhile, Judge Maya Guerra Gamble, a Texas district judge (and a Democrat) has issued a temporary restraining order blocking Texas Right to Life from suing abortion providers employed by Planned Parenthood under the new law. The order applies not only to Texas Right to Life, but also to "any and all parties and persons in active concert and participation with them."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/03/politics ... index.html

I tend to agree that this law is going to backfire, but not necessarily for the reasons that N.E.B. gives. The GOP has long flourished with policies that are not widely popular be it anti-choice, or pro-gun. But this law takes things to a different level, and I think that people are already starting to recoil at the whole "pay your neighbors to spy on you" aspect of it. That, I believe, is why Republican politicians haven't been talking very much about the Texas abortion ruling.

[N.E. Brigand]

Perhaps because of Roe v. Wade, the United States is something of an exception to the global trend shown by comparing these two maps:





Although South Africa and arguably India appear to be even more so.

[RoseMorninStar]

I tend to agree that this law is going to backfire, but not necessarily for the reasons that N.E.B. gives. The GOP has long flourished with policies that are not widely popular be it anti-choice, or pro-gun. But this law takes things to a different level, and I think that people are already starting to recoil at the whole "pay your neighbors to spy on you" aspect of it. That, I believe, is why Republican politicians haven't been talking very much about the Texas abortion ruling.

It doesn't fit in well with the 'Don't tread on me' mantra, does it? I cannot help but wonder how many see the irony of the government forcing medical decisions and snitching for non-compliance. In my area, it seems many of the pro-life activists (who, judging by the signs I've seen, seem to have affiliation with Qanon/Quazi-Qanon: the 'QQQ' ) and are terrified of the government interfering with their body autonomy in regards to the COVID vaccination.

N.E. yes, I agree there is a religious control correlation.

[Frelga]

I don't think the top map should have been that green for the US, even before Texas.

Eta: so the bounty site moved, to a host run by a guy whose name is Rob Monster.

[Túrin Turambar]

More of a legal question - will the Supreme actually strike down Roe, or will it simply keep eating away at it with decisions like this one? Obviously this decision makes Roe effectively toothless, but while it stands states which want to ban abortion will need to rely on weird work-arounds for enforcement like the Texas bounty scheme.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I wouldn't say that this decision makes Roe effectively toothless; I would say that it temporarily makes Roe effectively toothless in Texas. The court hasn't upheld this law, only refused to stay its operation while it winds through the courts. I would not be surprised if eventually this law does get struck down, not because it violates Roe but because its enforcement mechanism is not sustainable. But I think it is highly likely that the court will strike down Roe in the Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization case coming out of Mississippi. Then Texas (and other red states) won't need to try to pay people to enforce abortion bans; they can just do it themselves.

[N.E. Brigand]

A New York Times reporter notes that in 1969, a poll conducted by the Baptist Standard found that 90% of Baptists in Texas thought that state's abortion laws were too restrictive.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

While we in the U.S. head precipitously into the past, Mexico is moving forward into the future.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/07/americas ... index.html

[elengil]

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/08/10350892 ... ll-rapists

'Don't worry, ladies, you won't be forced to continue a pregnancy due to rape because we are going to eliminate all rapists...'

[Dave_LF]

Bad news for Matt Gaetz

[Frelga]

If it's that simple, why hasn't it been done already?

[Inanna]

Really, Frelga? Logic?

[elengil]

If it's that simple, why hasn't it been done already?

Maybe we should suggest a public reporting website...

[RoseMorninStar]

If it's that simple, why hasn't it been done already?

Maybe we should suggest a public reporting website...

Yeah, good one.

I fear this will lead to more victim blaming. Even in cases where young girls are sexually abused, they are often considered 'temptresses' 'knowing exactly what they were doing' or are not believed. There is a reason a lot of sexual assaults are never reported.

[Frelga]

Someone on Twitter pointed out that the groups pushing anti-woman laws only think of rape as a (probably non-white) stranger dragging you into a dark alley. Date rape, ex-partner, spousal abuse, and all the forms of violence that women actually experience in real life are excusable by them. Also note that Abbott did not promise to eliminate incest.

[elengil]

Along with eliminating rape, I hope they'll also be working through the untested rape kits in Texas. While they're doing that, maybe they could also do other things that reduce pregnancy, like access to women's health care and contraception, especially emergency contraception, and sex ed in schools.

Though I wonder how they will eliminate ectopic pregnancies... Oh wait, sorry, I forgot for a moment that this law wasn't about the life of the woman.

[Frelga]

Well, it is. It's just not about protecting it.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

While all the attention is on Texas' whack-a-doodle law (that has no real chance of standing in the long run), the real challenge to Roe v. Wade is going to be argued at the SCOTUS on December 1, with a likely decision in late June.

Supreme Court to hear restrictive Mississippi abortion law on December 1