The 2008 Presidential Campaign (was Obama Phenomenon 2)

Post by **sauronsfinger** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:11 pm

Faramond asks me

I don't know who you are arguing with, sauronsfinger.

Nobody here. I have been put on double secret probation not to argue with anyone. And that is getting easier by the hour since folks here seem not at all to want to argue with me. About anything. Its a win win situation.

I just sit and observe and make the occasional observation.

Post by **yovargas** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:21 pm

soli, do you know the guy who wrote the "no handshake" story? Just asking cuz I wouldn't put much stock or faith in such stories from random webloggers.

Post by **solicitr** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:02 pm

Yov, I have no idea. I put it up on a 'for what it's worth' basis. It purports to be from an Air Force captain stationed at Bagram. Genuine? I dunno. More elevated journals (<cough>New Republic<cough>) have been burned by bogus 'soldier dispatches'

But this does seem to fit the pattern of Obama's Iraq visit- tightly scripted, no press (except cameras), no questions, hasty meetings with top brass. Did Obama 'find facts' talking with Petraeus? We know Petraeus disagrees strongly with his plan- and despite BO's dismissal of Gen P's "narrow focus", P is very well aware that he will before long move up to Centcom and have both wars on his plate.

And there is this- if there were a flesh-pressing session with happy, enthusiastic GIs, don't you think the cameras would have been all over it?

-----------------------

Speaking of foreign travel to hotspots- there is an *eyeopening* piece in the WaPo on the much-derided Cindy McCain and her years of on-the spot humanitarian work- starting with Rwanda during the genocide. The 'spoiled little rich girl' stereotype apparently is very inaccurate indeed:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... inionsbox1

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Post by **sauronsfinger** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:09 pm

I do find it very telling that this "for what its worth" post is used to somehow, someway provide some character revelation about Barack Obama despite the fact that there is no identified source for the so called information and it cannot be independently verified.

I repeatedly have asked why we cannot use the Presidents own standards in gauging success for the surge but that falls upon deaf ears.

A nameless and faceless blog report about a handshake that did not takes place gets people excited while the Presidents own promises about the purpose of the surge gets the cold shoulder.

One major party presidential candidate says that the other candidate actually wants his country to lose a war so he can be elected. The word "traitor" or "treason" is avoided although the implication hangs there like a harvest moon. And that also seems to fall upon deaf ears in favor of speculation about the implications of a non-existent handshake that comes from a shadowy report which cannot be verified.

Like John Lennon said... "I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round...."

Post by **vison** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:42 pm

solicitr wrote:The issue ultimately is one of hypocrisy. If Obama didn't claim he wasn't campaigning, if he didn't claim to be a 'new kind of politician', this sort of thing would have no traction.

Are any Obama supporters here worried at all by Obama's apparent phobia of unscripted events?

Vison: taking a few minutes to shake some GIs' hands and tell them thank you is meaningful to them, even if there is another motive at work. Obama's snub bugs me. I don't know if my little bells are ringing 'anti-military', or 'elitist,' but they're ringing. It's just bloody rude, you know?

Did he actually refuse to shake someone's hand or is this just another non-story? I have no clue and more or less don't care. It's like Wayne Gretzky: he spent hours after nearly every game of his career signing autographs. But I know a guy who didn't get a Gretzky autograph and he's still convinced Gretzky was a jerk who wouldn't talk to his fans. One disgruntled person and it's a whole army of them. Or not. What's the real scoop here?

And I know from the bottom of my cynical old feet that NO man running for POTUS would dare to do either of these two things: not thank the military or say he's not a Christian.

Yes, yes, I know.

Running for POTUS is much more important than being a hockey player.

Unless you're Canadian, of course.

Post by **vison** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:48 pm

Speaking of "tightly scripted" stuff, what about Mr. McCain's trip to Iraq? That was, like, spontaneous and whatnot?

Another thing, and this applies as much to Mrs. Obama as to Mrs. McCain, what on earth do the activities of a candidate's wife have to do with anything? They may both be wonderful women - Laura Bush is supposed to be a wonderful woman by all accounts - but so what? This just drives me bats. Presidential candidates should put their wives in cold storage until they're elected.

Post by **River** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:52 pm

I imagine, given the stature of both Obama and McCain and the security situation in Iraq and Afghanistan, it would be reckless, if not outright negligent, to run a trip that wasn't tightly scripted.

Post by **Athrabeth** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:54 pm

solicitr wrote:A fact-finding trip implies going to find facts: seeing for one's self the situation on the ground, asking questions, listening to the concerns of the men.

It seems as if Obama did indeed do this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8IB2ZzzBiU

And for what it's worth, a response to the story in the Comments section of the Wake up America page:

Just a couple points of contention here, since I'm a believer in actual facts. Obama was actually in Afghanistan for 2 days and stayed in Bagram overnight, not for "an hour". Any bones this guy has to pick with the press coverage as being disingenuous should be directed to the military, since due to security no press core was permitted to travel with him, and all the news coverage was done by the Military press core. The claim that all his time there was for photo ops, is a physical impossibility since neither the press, nor his own campaign team was there to even take photos, infact of the 20 minutes of military footage I saw, he spent all of it talking with soldiers. Finally, perhaps this particular individual didn't get thanked by Obama, but in the footage, he thanked soldiers pretty much every time he met them.

Post by **solicitr** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:56 pm

Another thing, and this applies as much to Mrs. Obama as to Mrs. McCain, what on earth do the activities of a candidate's wife have to do with anything?

Blame the Clintons. They started it.

Post by **sauronsfinger** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:03 pm

I watched the youtube video of Obama in Afghanistan. There were many US servicemen in uniform that Obama enthusiastically shook hands with and even posed for individual photographs with.

Seems like somebody owes Senator Obama an apology.

Thank you to Athrabeth for posting it and settling this matter.

Post by **vison** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:11 pm

solicitr wrote:
Another thing, and this applies as much to Mrs. Obama as to Mrs. McCain, what on earth do the activities of a candidate's wife have to do with anything?
Blame the Clintons. They started it.

Sure.

Post by **halplm** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:35 pm

well, I'm confused... US press was not allowed, but Al Jazeera was? That doesn't sound right at all.

Are we sure that video is what it claims to be?

Honestly, everything I hear about this trip just confuses me more...

I don't think Obama is going to get what he wants out of it.

Post by **ToshoftheWuffingas** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:39 pm

Nice to see another slander nailed. Thanks Athrabeth.

Post by **sauronsfinger** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:46 pm

Seems like somebody owes Senator Obama and apology.

Post by **Athrabeth** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:58 pm

hal wrote:well, I'm confused... US press was not allowed, but Al Jazeera was? That doesn't sound right at all.

Are we sure that video is what it claims to be?

Hal, there are a various news source vids on You Tube that show exactly the same footage with voice-overs and other "extras" that the networks added when they ran the story. I'm assuming that the film itself comes from the Military press corp (as was pointed out in the comment I quoted from Wake up America), which was then released to the international press.

Post by **halplm** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:00 pm

who, the blogger?

what are you getting at, SF?

And all of this is hearsay anyway, on both sides...

We don't actually know, because he silenced the press.

Except, apparently, for Al Jazeera...

Post by **Jnyusa** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:07 pm

[removed]

Post by **halplm** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:09 pm

All the video's I can find are of Obama in Kuwait, where he did spend time in front of the camera's with the troops.

I'm happy to believe he did so in Afghanistan as well, I just haven't seen it in any media in the US, and I would have thought we would.

Post by **halplm** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:10 pm

Jnyusa wrote:
hal wrote:We don't actually know, because he silenced the press.

Who are you talking about, hal?

silenced was the wrong word. Shut them out is more accurate. There were no press with him except the military. He controlled everything. No questions except the ones he wanted.

It was carefully staged... which is a form of silencing... but not as bad as my statement sounded

Post by **Athrabeth** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:14 pm

hal wrote:We don't actually know, because he silenced the press.

Who silenced the press?

The international press corp and Obama's own campaign PR people weren't permitted to tag along on most of the Afghanistan tour. Obama's movements were kept very hush-hush by the military themselves. Yes, the security issues in that part of the world are really that bad.

hal wrote:Except, apparently, for Al Jazeera...

And NBC news (among many others). If you watch the whole video, you'll get an explanation that may clear up your confusion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJFO0GK_QPY