Book 1, Chap. 1: A Long-Expected Party

The Hall of Fire's extended chapter by chapter discussion of Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings
User avatar
Primula Baggins
Living in hope
Posts: 40005
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
Contact:

Post by Primula Baggins »

Voronwë I'm sure will have an answer, but mine would be: Bilbo getting married is part of Bilbo's story, and LotR (in terms of hobbits) is Frodo's story. It's not that it would be wrong for Bilbo to be married, as I see it; it's that his getting married would slow down the beginning of the real story, muddy the importance of the Ring, and possibly let readers think that LotR was going to be about Bilbo.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 46099
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Al, the cynical answer would be that it is a controversial thing to say that was likely to spark discussion, and I wanted to try to spark discussion. ;)

But that really isn't it. I do think that it is critically important that both Bilbo and Frodo remained bachelors, but I'm going to have to give some thought as to exactly why I think that. I'll be back.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
Primula Baggins
Living in hope
Posts: 40005
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
Contact:

Post by Primula Baggins »

You're a maverick and a danger to us all.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
User avatar
WampusCat
Creature of the night
Posts: 8464
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:36 pm
Location: Where least expected

Post by WampusCat »

Besides, marriage might have prevented all that enlightening speculation over whether he was gay.

:roll:

I do think that it would have been fine to make reference to a marriage in Bilbo's past -- even, perhaps, to make Frodo his son. That would be little different than introducing Frodo as his nephew and ward. As long as there wasn't a wife in the picture, it wouldn't have made much difference.

But the story as written does keep the focus on the Ring and its effect on him. That's as it should be.
Last edited by WampusCat on Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Primula Baggins
Living in hope
Posts: 40005
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
Contact:

Post by Primula Baggins »

And it allows Bilbo to remain "peculiar," underscoring the effect his adventures have had on him.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 46099
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

That's a big part of it, Prim.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
River
bioalchemist
Posts: 13431
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:08 am
Location: the dry land

Post by River »

It's also easier, I think, to let go of everything you've got if you don't have a spouse and kids. Maybe that's where the "peculiarity" of Bilbo and Frodo lay. They were both adult hobbits, but they never started families or really rooted themselves in The Shire. For a long time, Bilbo up the appearance that he had, but then he went off with some dwarves, had a little incident with a dragon and never was the same after that. Frodo knew for a long time he was neither here nor there (witness Lobelia's parting shot) and then he too left and came back changed. The Shire wasn't for him when he came back. Maybe it never was, and he just didn't know it.
User avatar
Primula Baggins
Living in hope
Posts: 40005
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
Contact:

Post by Primula Baggins »

Yes, Frodo is "peculiar" in the same way as Bilbo, even before he leaves the Shire.

I also wonder if, at least for Frodo, there is an association with purity. I think of the Arthurian legends, with their great deeds that could only be done by virgin knights.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 46099
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

In Return of the Shadow, Christopher states in reference to the fourth version of "A Long-Expected Party":
We com now therefore to a further stage, where the 'long-expected party' is till Bingo's, not Bilbo's but Bingo is his nephew, not his son, and Bilbo's marriage (as was inevitable, I think) has been rejected.
Christopher does not, however (as is so often the case) explain why he thought it was inevitable that Bilbo's marriage would be rejected. I think that reason that River gives pretty conclusively explains why Frodo needed to remain unmarried, but it doesn't necessarily explain why Bilbo needed to. As I said earlier, I agree with Prim that part of it is simply to help establish how unusual Bilbo and Frodo was. However, there is another reason that I would like to posit as the real reason why it was inevitable that Bilbo's marriage (and hence Frodo/Bingo being his direct descendant). I think it is an important part of the story of LOTR that Bilbo chooses Frodo to be his heir (and thus to have the Ring pass to him), rather than just have him be his heir as a result of being his son. Indeed, that is the main role that Bilbo plays in the Lord of the Rings. I will talk more about this when we discuss the next chapter, "The Shadow of the Past."
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
axordil
Pleasantly Twisted
Posts: 8999
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:35 pm
Location: Black Creek Bottoms
Contact:

Post by axordil »

Given the enormous importance of families for Hobbits, not marrying, not having children, and then adopting a young relative add up to a large exclamation point. As Gandalf says, Bilbo was meant to find the ring, which means Frodo was meant to carry it...since Bilbo chose Frodo as an heir, as V-man says.


eta--kinda makes one wonder about that boat "accident" that orphaned Frodo... :scratch:
User avatar
River
bioalchemist
Posts: 13431
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:08 am
Location: the dry land

Post by River »

Primula Baggins wrote:I also wonder if, at least for Frodo, there is an association with purity. I think of the Arthurian legends, with their great deeds that could only be done by virgin knights.
This has sparked a thought. I'll jot it down and share it when the time comes.
User avatar
Cerin
Posts: 6384
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:10 am

Post by Cerin »

Perhaps Bilbo and Frodo's single status is sort of a priestly idea. They are set apart (destined) for a certain service, and of course one of the ways (Catholic) priests are set apart is by remaining unmarried.

I also think Bilbo's ownership of the Ring would have prevented a true marital union, as it would have kept a part of himself off limits to a spouse. It would have engendered jealousy and suspicion on his part, I would think.
Avatar photo by Richard Lykes, used with permission.
User avatar
Primula Baggins
Living in hope
Posts: 40005
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
Contact:

Post by Primula Baggins »

Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote:I think it is an important part of the story of LOTR that Bilbo chooses Frodo to be his heir (and thus to have the Ring pass to him), rather than just have him be his heir as a result of being his son. Indeed, that is the main role that Bilbo plays in the Lord of the Rings.
This speaks to something that I have always strongly felt about LotR: that the story shows how Eru works through the inhabitants of Middle-earth, rather than poking the Giant Finger of Omnipotence into their affairs.

A Frodo born to Bilbo is the direct result of the action of Eru. "Here's your heir."

A Frodo chosen by Bilbo is also what Eru would will, but that will is carried out through the chancy, but therefore meaningful, action of a being with free will. Eru seems to want not only right actions, but freely chosen right actions, even though this opens the door to actions that are wrong as well.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 46099
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Prim, that is very much what I was getting at. But I still plan to elaborate when we get to the next chapter.

River, I very look forward to hearing what your thought is.

Cerin, the idea of a "priestly" element to Bilbo and Frodo's singleness hadn't occurred to me, but that makes good sense. The idea that the Ring prevented any kind of real union makes even more sense. Thanks!

Ax, :shock:
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
Alatar
of Vinyamar
Posts: 10596
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:39 pm
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Post by Alatar »

Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote:The idea that the Ring prevented any kind of real union makes even more sense.
Or rather, it does if the amendments were made in later stages when the Ring had grown to its final form. The ring of the Hobbit had no such affect, and I would think that the first few drafts of A Long Expected Party were written long before the Ring had any such attributes. The only hint of them at this stage is Bilbo's unwillingness to give it up. I think we have a tendency to inform our observations with future events that probably were far from fixed at the time of writing.
Image
The Vinyamars on Stage! This time at Bag End
User avatar
Rowanberry
Bregalad's Lost Entwife
Posts: 1091
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:15 pm
Location: Rooted in the northern woods
Contact:

Post by Rowanberry »

Primula Baggins wrote:Eru seems to want not only right actions, but freely chosen right actions, even though this opens the door to actions that are wrong as well.
That, I think, is a very important aspect through the whole LOTR. All of the characters face situations in which they have to make a choice; and, if even one of their choices would have been different, the end result would have been totally different.

Bilbo choosing Frodo as his heir just isn't as obvious as, say, Frodo offering to take the Ring to Mordor, or Aragorn deciding to go after Merry and Pippin rather than after Frodo and Sam.
Image
See the world as your self.
Have faith in the way things are.
Love the world as your self;
then you can care for all things.
~ Lao Tzu
Ophelia
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:55 pm
Location: Still Not Drowned

Post by Ophelia »

Although Gandalf himself does exclaim: "Bilbo made no mistake in choosing his heir, though he little thought how important that choice would be." (Sorry, wrong chapter).
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 46099
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Which is part of why I said I would talk about this more when we got to the next chapter. ;)
Or rather, it does if the amendments were made in later stages when the Ring had grown to its final form. The ring of the Hobbit had no such affect, and I would think that the first few drafts of A Long Expected Party were written long before the Ring had any such attributes. The only hint of them at this stage is Bilbo's unwillingness to give it up. I think we have a tendency to inform our observations with future events that probably were far from fixed at the time of writing.


That's true, Al. But I think that it is fair to judge the final form. After all, it is very rare to have access to the early drafts of a work, as we do for LOTR. It's very difficult to ascertain exactly what was in the mind of the author when, both consciously and unconsciously.

That having been said, I think a good argument can be made that the history of the drafting of this chapter supports this theory. We have four initial versions of the chapter. In the first version, Bilbo gives the party, but the story is going to be about one of his descendants. In the second version, he still gives the party, but (it seems) the story is going to be about Bilbo himself. Then in the third version, the party is given by Bingo, his son, who will be the main character of the story. Then, finally, the idea of Bilbo's marriage is rejected, and the party is given by his nephew and adopted heir, Bingo. It is only at this point that Tolkien is able to go on and continue the story. Then, in the course of writing and revising and thinking about most of the rest of what would become Book 1, he "discovers" the importance of the Ring. It is at that point that he goes back and brings the first chapter into the present form, with the party being given by Bilbo, so that he can pass on the ring to his chosen heir, Bingo/Frodo. At this point the reason why the idea of Bilbo's being married and having descendants needed to be abandoned has become clear.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
axordil
Pleasantly Twisted
Posts: 8999
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:35 pm
Location: Black Creek Bottoms
Contact:

Post by axordil »

Sometimes an unfortunate event has fortunate consequences. That doesn't make it less unfortunate, though. At least according to Mandos. :D Frodo's orphaning, Gandalf's death, Boromir's fall, Gollum's recidivism...I detect a pattern here. :D
User avatar
Cerin
Posts: 6384
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:10 am

Post by Cerin »

I would really like to talk about the ring scene you mentioned earlier, Voronwë. I've gotten the impression from various discussions in the past that people have more varied interpretations of the scene than I would have expected.

Given that it's the reader's introduction to the nature of the ring and its relationship to bearers/owners, I think of it as the foundation upon which all subsequent understanding of the ring must be built, so I would love to get other people's impression of what they see going on here.

First I'd like to look at two related passages. In the first, Bilbo makes his first attempt to separate himself from the ring:

He then went into his study, and from a large strong-box took out a bundle wrapped in old cloths, and a leather-bound manuscript; and also a large, bulky envelope. The book and bundle he stuffed into the top of a heavy bag that was standing there, already nearly full. Into the envelope he slipped his golden ring, and its fine chain, and then sealed it, and addressed it to Frodo. At first he put it on the mantlepiece, but suddenly he removed it and put it in his pocket. At that moment the door opened and Gandalf came quickly in.

A bit later Bilbo responds to Gandalf about the Ring's whereabouts, and we see he wasn't aware that he'd taken it back off the mantlepiece.

' Everything?' said Gandalf. ' The ring as well? You agreed to that, you remember.

'Well, er, yes, I suppose so,' stammered Bilbo.

'Where is it?'

'In an envelope, if you must know,' said Bilbo impatiently. 'There on the mantlepiece. Well no! Here it is in my pocket!' He hesitated. 'Isn't that odd now?' he said softly to himself. 'Yet after all, why not? Why shouldn't it stay there?'


So here is our first bit of observational data, if you will, on the 'behavior' of the ring. It had actually controlled Bilbo's actions without his awareness.

Next we have the confrontation scene, and it shows the ring's influence asserting itself and then abating:

He (Gandalf) turned away, and the shadow passed. He seemed to dwindle again to an old grey man, bent and troubled.

Bilbo drew his hand over his eyes. ' I am sorry,' he said. 'But I felt so queer.'


So there, Bilbo's behavior was influenced by the Ring, but he was aware of it afterwards.

You made an observation about the next passage, Voronwë, which I'll quote:
Voronwë wrote:I love the way Tolkien has Bilbo use the very lightheartedness of the earlier part of the chapter to justify his overcoming the temptation of the ring.
Let me quote the part that comes just before that:

'<snip>I tried locking it up, but I found I couldn't rest without it in my pocket. I don't know why. And I don't seem able to make up my mind.'

'Then trust mine,' said Gandalf. 'It is quite made up. Go away and leave it behind. Stop possessing it. Give it to Frodo, and I will look after him.'

Bilbo stood for a moment tense and undecided. Presently he sighed. ' All right,' he said with an effort. 'I will.'


Now based on Bilbo's later comment that Voronwë quoted earlier ('After all, that's what all this party business was all about, really: to give away lots of birthday presents, and somehow make it easier to give it away at the same time.'), this apparently isn't the first time Bilbo consciously considered and reached a decision to leave the ring to Frodo. But we saw (above) what happened the first time he tried to act on that decision.

Now we see what happens the second time he tries to act on the decision he has just made:

'Very well,' said Bilbo. 'It goes to Frodo with the rest.' He drew a deep breath. 'And now I really must be starting, or somebody else will catch me. I have said good-bye, and I couldn't bear to do it all over again.' He picked up his bag and moved to the door.

'You have still got the ring in your pocket,' said the wizard.

'Well, so I have!' cried Bilbo. 'And my will and all the other documents, too. You had better take it and deliver it for me. That will be safest.'


I take that passage to be more ambiguous than the others. One could interpret that Bilbo simply forgot for the moment that the Ring was still in his pocket; or one can interpret that the influence of the Ring is at work in having him attempt to leave without acting on his latest decision. I think the passages thus far taken together give a very clear picture of two aspects of the Ring's influence, mental and physical. Bilbo has twice decided (once that we witness, once alluded to) to leave the Ring to Frodo. I agree that this could be referred to as Voronwë did, as overcoming the temptation of the Ring. But Bilbo has twice failed to act on that decision. Next we see him fail a third time (following directly from the last quote above).

'No, don't give the ring to me,' said Gandalf. 'Put it on the mantlepiece. It will be safe enough there till Frodo comes. I shall wait for him.'

Bilbo took out the envelope, but just as he was about to set it by the clock, his hand jerked back and the packet fell on the floor. Before he could pick it up, the wizard stooped and seized it and set it in its place. A spasm of anger passed swiftly over the hobbit's face again. Suddenly it gave way to a look of relief and a laugh.

'Well that's that', he said. 'Now I'm off!'


I would submit that this last bit of action describes something similar to the first passage I quoted, when Bilbo takes back the envelope from the mantlepiece before Gandalf enters the room, but is unaware he has done so. We aren't told here that Bilbo jerked his hand back, but rather, that his hand jerked back; I believe that indicates it is an outside influence jerking his hand. If the envelope hadn't providentially fallen from his hand at that moment, I submit that another confrontation similar to the previous one would inevitably have followed.

So my interpretation of the scene (trying to view it as a first time reader) is that Bilbo was able to make a mental decision to give up the Ring, but he was not able to act on that decision insofar as separating himself physically from the ring, because the ring prevented it; he literally couldn't let go of it of his own power, or if you will, of his own volition. However, once he was aided in being separated from it physically, he was able to follow through on his intent to leave it behind.

Do other people interpret this differently?
Avatar photo by Richard Lykes, used with permission.
Post Reply