The Hall of Fire

I posted in an already existing thread in the Letters forum, here. I hope you will comment there.

I am revisiting this, because the subject came up in another thread. Specifically, the subject of Gollum's near repentance and Sam's role in foiling it. To repeat (quoting a greater length, to show the context), Tolkien wrote in Letter 246: Sam was cocksure, and deep down a little conceited; but his...

We may need a separate Shibboleth thread to discuss it, but I'm intensely interested to learn in what way you disagree with my (and, apparently, Tolkien's, since he agrees with me) evaluation of Sam's role in foiling Gollum's repentance, Frelga.

I'm very interested to hear whether people find the extensive tables to be a helpful and/or valuable resource. Post your thoughts specifically about the tables here in this thread.

Post your own review of the book, or about reviews that you have seen on or off line.

The Ghân-buri-Ghân?

Without a doubt, the most important book scene left out of the films was Gollum's near repentance at the stairs of Cirith Ungol, foiled by Sam's failure to recognize the change in him. That it was replaced with the horrible Lembas/Sam, go home scene just makes it worse.

Oh and one more: Gandalf reciting Faramir's words about Kings making tombs more splendid than the houses of the living, and childless lords sitting in aged halls, musing on heraldry, or in high, cold towers, asking questions of the stars, along with those wonderful shots of Minas Tirith. That was a ...

The worst offender, for me, is actually the RotK:EE! It just goes on too bloody long, and I don't think I like any of the additional scenes. Oh, apart from Merry offering his sword to Théoden. Obviously. All the rest -- meh. ;) My dear Di, I find it difficult to believe that you didn't like any of ...

Húrin, that's interesting. I don't remember whether I was ever suspicious of Sam, even briefly. Unfortunately, I really don't remember any of my initial impressions about the book (even though it wasn't quite as long ago when I first read it as it was for you; more like 35 years or a bit less).

I don't think that people who weren't familiar with the books were confused at all, generally speaking. It is only those who had preconceptions about what the story should be who were confused. Certainly, I have never seen a single review by a critic who pointed to that as an error, nor have I ever ...

It was Sunflower at TORN who spotted the quote, and posted it there, to give credit where credit is due.

It would be nice to have some real news, wouldn't it?

This is from a messageboard post fromt the webmaster of DeToroFilms.com, who apparently just returned from vacation: Most importantly - I traded a few emails with G over vacation. He is in New Zealand at the moment and working 24/7. He says he misses you all and says to expect "MASSIVE" (d...

Al, I largely agree with you. And the scene with the Nazgûl is one of the most visually and aurally (not musically) compelling scenes in the films (and for heaven's sake, Frodo does not "offer the Ring" to the Nazgûl).

Rather than splitting this off, I adjusted the thread title to accommodate the new discussion.

If I get industrious, I'll hunt up Iavas' old thread at TORC that discusses the various ways that the "cliff dive" advanced the plot of the films.

No, some of us are reading with interest, but just don't have any knowledge of the subject to add to the discussion.

(I look forward to hearing it some day.)

I agree with soli on this one. And the thing is, it just wasn't necessary. They didn't have to portray Denethor as such an unredeemable jerk from the get-go. And I'm not saying that out of some purist inclination. I just think it would have been a better story all around.

Thanks, soli and Mith. I enjoy learning more about religious disciplines that I know little about.

Thanks, soli. Very interesting.

Yes. Perhaps the very lowest point of the films, IMHO. In the movie, Denethor has become lost by grief, despair, and arrogance by the time Gandalf arrives and from the film POV there's nothing wrong about that. I find the portrayal of the lord gone mad very compelling and well-done, both tragic and ...