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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:34 pm 
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Túrin Turambar wrote:
Where the alternative is that the administration used an obscure foriegn symbol as a dog-whistle to people who, quite frankly, are unlikely to be informed enough to either recognise it or know what it means, then yeah, I go for the 'never assume malice when stupidity will do' approach. It's rarely wrong.


Sure, you can assume that the first time, or the second time, or the third time, or the fourth time, or the fifth time, but at what point are too many coincidences no longer just coincidence or stupidity? At some point you need to start believing people when they tell you who they are and what they are promoting.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:51 pm 
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I remember a quote from one of the James Bond novels, which I read back in the 1960's and '70's:
"Once is happenstance, twice is co-incidence, and the third time, it's enemy action."

I tend to agree with that, especially when the ads come from the man who said there were 'very fine people' on both sides of the Charlottesville riots.

Edited to add: It's from Goldfinger, spoken by Auric Goldfinger himself.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:57 pm 
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If the red triangle is a dog-whistle to white supremacists, then:
1. There must be a sizeable part of the American electorate who recognise it and know what it means, and;
2. A sizeable sub-group of that group must look on it with approval.

I've not seen evidence of either. There are white supremacists in America, but the symbols they use are well-known and documented by organisations like the SPLC. I have never seen the red triangle in any list of neo-Nazi or white supremacist symbols. And they're likely to vote Trump anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:26 am 
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Túrin Turambar wrote:
If the red triangle is a dog-whistle to white supremacists, then:
1. There must be a sizeable part of the American electorate who recognise it and know what it means, and;
2. A sizeable sub-group of that group must look on it with approval.


Bingo.
It doesn't have to be sizeable, it just has to be violent.

See, the happenings in V's hometown.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:39 am 
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But again, we know what symbols white supremacists in the U.S. use. It's not a secret. And the red triangle has never been one of them (although it might become one now, who knows?).


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:28 am 
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It is now.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:43 am 
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When it comes to the Trump campaign, why does it have to be malice OR stupidity? Why can't it be both? Trump's infamously petty and vindictive and he hasn't been making the greatest hires lately. To hear him tell it, he's surrounded by idiots who needed a second chance or something...

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:54 am 
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To clarify my definition of political Dog Whistle: Dog whistles serve the purpose of attracting the intended political audience without garnering ire with opposing audiences. A dog-whistle is a type of doublespeak used in political messaging. Dog whistles work by employing language that has normal meanings to the majority, but can be implied or loaded to mean very specific things to intended recipients. Dog whistles are used to avoid the attention of the opposed or being labeled as politically incorrect while still conveying messages related to matters which may be opposed.

While Trump is petty & vindictive & loves to stick it to people (and has said as much), it is Stephen Miller, a Senior Advisor, who seems to be well acquainted with history and symbolism.

I'm not on twitter, but Trumps tweets often make the news. He follows (and often retweets) bizarre stuff from conspiracy websites and QAnon, White Nationalist sites, etc..and some pretty obscure racist garbage from some pretty dicey websites. I'm not a WWII history buff yet I knew the upside down triangle was used for Nazi's prisoners/dissidents, and the upside-down pink triangle was for homosexuals. So I would think not so obscure. I agree with Frelga.. his message wasn't intended for nor does it need to reach a large audience, just a violent or very vocal one. Stephen Miller

Conversely, I've done a search & couldn't find a upside-down triangle connection with Antifa (except from references to the Trump ads). It seems no one can. I have learned never take what the Trump administration says at face value. They lie. AND LIE, and LIE and blame others. Tricks of a con-man.
https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/19/what-ups ... -12874325/

The Trump administration has done quite of few things that seem to be highly symbolic, triggering. Divisive. Petty. Vindictive. For example, Trump finalizes rollback of LGBTQ patient protections on the 4th anniversary of the Pulse nightclub shooting where 49 people died and many more were injured.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:37 pm 
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Meanwhile, this is a huge deal.

Powerful US attorney who investigated Trump associates refuses to step down after Barr tries to push him out

The headline really should be "investigated and is investigating" because his investigation of Giuliani is still-ongoing, though I suspect that the pandemic has slowed it down (and I've always been skeptical that they would actually indict him, though he almost certainly is indictable).

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:57 pm 
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
Meanwhile, this is a huge deal.

Powerful US attorney who investigated Trump associates refuses to step down after Barr tries to push him out

The headline really should be "investigated and is investigating" because his investigation of Giuliani is still-ongoing, though I suspect that the pandemic has slowed it down (and I've always been skeptical that they would actually indict him, though he almost certainly is indictable).

Surely Barr knew only Trump has the authority to remove Berman from his current position. He did it anyway, which makes me wonder why he did that and why Trump isn't doing it himself.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:53 pm 
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Berman was appointed in an unusual manner, and it is not clear that Trump has the power to fire him, until he nominates someone to the position and that person gets confirmed. To be more specific, he was originally appointed to a temporary 120 day term by Sessions when he was still Attorney General, after Trump forced Preet Bharara out of the position. Berman was then appointed to the position for an indeterminate period of time by the judges of the district "until the vacancy is filled".

Keep in mind that Berman was a Trump supporter who donated to Trump's 2016 campaign. This is not some liberal snowflake.

The real question is, did Barr try to push this through now because Berman is getting ready to indict Giuliani? I don't believe so, but who knows?

Edited to add: Well, Barr says Trump has fired Berman, so we'll see!

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:43 pm 
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Nadler has invited Berman to testify Wednesday.
Quote:
Nadler’s committee is holding a hearing on Wednesday with John Elias and Aaron Zelinsky, two whistleblowers at the Justice Department, to “describe the unprecedented politicization” of the DOJ under Trump and Barr’s leadership.


Considering how Berman was appointed.. does Trump have the power to fire him? It doesn't sound like it.

From The Hill:
Quote:
Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) signaled on Saturday that he will not move forward with a nomination for the U.S. attorney for Manhattan without signoff from two Democratic senators.

Graham said he would wait to receive a "blue slip" — a sheet of paper that indicates whether a home-state senator supports a nomination — before moving forward with a new nominee to be the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York.

"As to processing U.S. Attorney nominations, it has always been the policy of the Judiciary Committee to receive blue slips from the home state senators before proceeding to the nomination," Graham said in a statement. "As chairman, I have honored that policy and will continue to do so."

If Graham sticks with his position, that would give Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) leverage to try to block the administration's nominee for the spot from being confirmed by the Senate by not returning their blue slips.


To further complicate matters, Barr said he removed Berman at the request of the president (Trump) yet Trump says that's not true.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:17 pm 
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So, um, if Trump fired Berman why is Barr the one writing the letter? And why did Trump announce on TV that he's not involved in the matter? Even if it all turns out to be much ado about nothing, it makes Trump and Barr look like a pair of idiots.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:26 pm 
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River wrote:
Even if it all turns out to be much ado about nothing, it makes Trump and Barr look like a pair of idiots.

Yeaaas. You mean, incompetent? Corrupt? Inept? ....And?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:54 pm 
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River wrote:
So, um, if Trump fired Berman why is Barr the one writing the letter? And why did Trump announce on TV that he's not involved in the matter? Even if it all turns out to be much ado about nothing, it makes Trump and Barr look like a pair of idiots.
So, What’s new?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:44 pm 
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Well, Barr was supposed to be the smart one. Now, granted, between this, that 11th hour attempt at cancelling Bolton's printed and distributed book, and whatever the **** is happening with Flynn he's looking more like a collapsed toad but, stll, he was supposed to be the smart one.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:06 am 
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I haven't been able to find anything in print, but according the live news coverage on TV the Tulsa rally area was declared a Federally occupied zone & anyone with weapons were asked to leave and a good chunk of the crowd left. According to the news reporter they were from right-wing and 'Boogaloo' groups.


Also (so much id happening that stuff seems to slip through unnoticed):

New Conservative Media Chief Dismisses Heads of U.S.-Funded News Outlets
Quote:
The moves by Michael Pack, an ally of Steve Bannon appointed by President Trump, raised concerns that the news organizations would become partisan. A conservative filmmaker who recently took over a United States global media agency removed the chiefs of four news organizations under its purview on Wednesday night, according to people with knowledge of the decision, in an action that raises questions about their editorial independence.

The filmmaker, Michael Pack, also dismissed the head of a technology group and replaced the bipartisan boards that govern and advise those five organizations. The boards, which all have the same members, are now filled largely with political appointees of the Trump administration, including Mr. Pack as chairman. One board member works for a conservative advocacy organization, Liberty Counsel Action.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:10 am 
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Berman has agreed to leave now that Barr/Trump has agreed not to appoint Craig Carpenito, a person close to Barr who is now the US attorney in New Jersey, to fill the role, and instead, allow Berman's chief deputy to take over. So presumably the existing investigations will continue.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:34 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:50 am 
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But then why bother? Face saving, I guess.

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