I will go more in depth tomorrow because it is getting late on the West Coast but I have just come back from seeing the finished film.
NON SPOILER REVIEW
There is a LOT to enjoy, particularly in the first 2/3 of the movie. I don't think it felt like a single beat was missed. I enjoyed this leg of the film immensely. The last 1/3 has a lot to enjoy but also has many moments that will make even the most forgiving fan a little upset. That said I think the film is quite good, it just wobbles its way to the finish line, which is unfortunate. There are a few over the top scenes that make Bombur's barrel ride in DOS look tame. Also the Tauriel storyline will divide fans.
SPOILER REVIEW
Hidden text.FINAL THOUGHTS (FOR NOW):
There is a lot to enjoy. In fact, I think most of the movie, up until Ravenhill is quite excellent. There are lots of nice dialogue scenes. The build up to the battle is incredible. PJ has a lot of restraint which is sorely missed as he goes into the final stretch of the film. Most of the battle is great, it's just when Legolas and Tauriel return that things start to go south. On top of that the post battle sequences are short changed with few characters getting resolution.
The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews... SPOILERS
The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews... SPOILERS
First review in that I've seen, from Dcole4 over on Torn...
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews...
Haven't seen the film yet, but by its description it seems like the film is worse than my worst expectations, with only a few things that actually sound nice. (Fili's death, for instance)
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews...
Or atleast the later 1/3rd of it.
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews...
Elen - thank you for starting this thread. I must say that this review causes me lots of concern and even outright trepidation - but - lets see what others chime in with. I was hoping for the same magic that PJ worked with ROTK and it seems to have gone in much the opposite direction. But lets see what others say before being overly negative.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews...
and ... perhaps we have 45 minutes of footage for the EE which does the ending right and proper?
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews...
The same thing happened last year when Dcole4 saw DoS, and posted his thoughts, which were far more negative than this. While there is a couple of things that I don't like (particularly lack of Beorn), overall I'm not bothered by any of this.
Off to go see the doom and gloom elsewhere.
Off to go see the doom and gloom elsewhere.
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews...
Oh, that was amusing.
Of course, Dcole doesn't say a word about what I consider to be the most important aspects of this part of the story, the effect of the treasure on Thorin and others, Bilbo's taking of the Arkenstone and the mess that it causes (which I expect will not be the same as in the book), and most of all Thorin's final scene with Bilbo. Maybe that is because none of that is there, or it is no good, but I don't think so.
Of course, Dcole doesn't say a word about what I consider to be the most important aspects of this part of the story, the effect of the treasure on Thorin and others, Bilbo's taking of the Arkenstone and the mess that it causes (which I expect will not be the same as in the book), and most of all Thorin's final scene with Bilbo. Maybe that is because none of that is there, or it is no good, but I don't think so.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews...
Really, V? I recall you saying the one thing that would bother you most is if Fili and Kili do not die defending Thorin's body...VtF wrote:While there is a couple of things that I don't like (particularly lack of Beorn), overall I'm not bothered by any of this.
Well, certainly doesn't seem like we're getting that for Fili, at least!
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews...
I assume that is all in the first 2/3 of the film (apart from Thorin's final scene, of course) which he does praise...Voronwë the Faithful wrote:Oh, that was amusing.
Of course, Dcole doesn't say a word about what I consider to be the most important aspects of this part of the story, the effect of the treasure on Thorin and others, Bilbo's taking of the Arkenstone and the mess that it causes (which I expect will not be the same as in the book), and most of all Thorin's final scene with Bilbo. Maybe that is because none of that is there, or it is no good, but I don't think so.
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews...
I'm confused by the "Strider" thing. As for the rest, I agree that he said very little about stuff that matters, and a whole lot about stuff that really doesn't.
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews...
That's not exactly what I said. What I said (in trying to talk SV down from the ledge after the last set of spoilers, from Frodo-something), was that it sounded like they did die defending Thorin: viewtopic.php?p=295188#p295188. But I would not say that if they do not, it is something that would bother me that much, if their deaths are done well, and serve the story well.Elentári wrote:Really, V? I recall you saying the one thing that would bother you most is if Fili and Kili do not die defending Thorin's body...VtF wrote:While there is a couple of things that I don't like (particularly lack of Beorn), overall I'm not bothered by any of this.
Well, certainly doesn't seem like we're getting that for Fili, at least!
ETA: I agree Dave, that was odd.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews...
Well, DCole did say
Well, V, since you included it among the important points that you hope were in, I assumed you would consider it "bad" if it wasn't "checked"I'll comment on the first 2/3 of the film later. For now I'll focus on the "bad" moments in the last 1/3 of the film. Mostly to put the information out there, and prepare you for the film.
Personally, for me the good far, far outweighs the bad because the important points are checked
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews...
The events near the end, considering that they involve the death of three main characters, are the kind of thing a director hopes for from a script. It is drama on a platter, and a director need only whisper its content in order to make it work. Therefore, PJ spends weeks of pickups shooting an insane CGI-laden video game obstacle battle to make it better...
Honestly, though, this looks like an almost exact repeat of DOS. People generally liked it until "pick up hell" started for the last 30 or 40 minutes of the movie, after Bilbo's encounter with Smaug. So perhaps I'll end up seeing it the same way. Generally good, with some PJ insanity, some that works, and some that's just horribly bad. And as Dave and V-man point out, this reviewer has thus far not touched on any of the key moments and conflicts of the film. But why, I wonder, did he decide to start with the "bad stuff" before going to bed? I imagine this has caused a furious rage "elsewhere."
One question zero people seem to be asking is: are the ravens in the film? Surely, if there are giant worms, there can be message-delivering ravens...
Honestly, though, this looks like an almost exact repeat of DOS. People generally liked it until "pick up hell" started for the last 30 or 40 minutes of the movie, after Bilbo's encounter with Smaug. So perhaps I'll end up seeing it the same way. Generally good, with some PJ insanity, some that works, and some that's just horribly bad. And as Dave and V-man point out, this reviewer has thus far not touched on any of the key moments and conflicts of the film. But why, I wonder, did he decide to start with the "bad stuff" before going to bed? I imagine this has caused a furious rage "elsewhere."
One question zero people seem to be asking is: are the ravens in the film? Surely, if there are giant worms, there can be message-delivering ravens...
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews...
Ah, it looks like Thranduil sends Legolas to seek out Aragorn (possibly because of the firm evidence of Sauron's return). Which implies, I suppose, that Legolas spends about sixty years looking for Aragorn, and arrives in Rivendell just in time to meet him and discuss the Ring!Dave_LF wrote:I'm confused by the "Strider" thing. As for the rest, I agree that he said very little about stuff that matters, and a whole lot about stuff that really doesn't.
Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews...
I thought it was clear in both book and film that Aragorn and Legolas were already well acquainted before the Council of Elrond. Feel free to get annoyed over changes, but first, make sure they are actually, you know, changes...
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews...
Speaking purely from memory, I don't recall any specific mention of Aragorn and Legolas having any familiarity with each other, but it is not a bad guess given that Aragorn turned Gollum over to the Elves of Mirkwood (I think).
Elen, that is a reasonable assumption, but I am clarifying now.
PtB, Dcole did the exact same thing last year, causing the exact same panic. He (she?) seems to think that the purpose of a review is to point out the things that one doesn't like, and ignore the things that one does like (in terms of specifics).
Elen, that is a reasonable assumption, but I am clarifying now.
PtB, Dcole did the exact same thing last year, causing the exact same panic. He (she?) seems to think that the purpose of a review is to point out the things that one doesn't like, and ignore the things that one does like (in terms of specifics).
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews...
The absence of mentions of the key moments is what bothers me the most about this review. Not a single word about Thorin's death? And did I just miss the few mentions of Bilbo in the review or does he choose not to say anything about Bilbo at all?
The final 1/3rd was probably my most anticipated part of this film - and to some extent the entire trilogy - because of all the character moments and closures.
I actually like the sound of Fili's death since it's quite dramatic and shocking, on the lines of Azog killing Thror in front of Nár. It will affect the audience, if done the right way.
PS: IIRC, it was different last time with Dcole. His main complaints for DOS again and again were the overuse of CGI and ninja elf stunts.
This time around, I'm more bothered about the exclusions he mentions than the CGI or additions.
The final 1/3rd was probably my most anticipated part of this film - and to some extent the entire trilogy - because of all the character moments and closures.
I actually like the sound of Fili's death since it's quite dramatic and shocking, on the lines of Azog killing Thror in front of Nár. It will affect the audience, if done the right way.
PS: IIRC, it was different last time with Dcole. His main complaints for DOS again and again were the overuse of CGI and ninja elf stunts.
This time around, I'm more bothered about the exclusions he mentions than the CGI or additions.
Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews...
Here is Dcole4's full review: I'll spoiler tag most of it just in case...
LONGER REVIEW (SPOILERS)
As with my DOS review, I will avoid the really good bits and leave those for you to discover. I will say this, the first 2/3 of this movie (even CGI Dain), do play out in a way that made me smile for most of the movie. Everything pre-battle is fantastic, and most of the actual battle is quite incredible.
A note re my DOS review. I think that my impressions on this film are much different than my impressions of DOS. Unlike that film I have not viewed any trailers clips or soundtrack samples. I went into BOTFA completely fresh. While I have grown to enjoy DOS (especially the EE), my issues with BOTFA are quite deep, and likely won't be so easily accepted as those in DOS. For one thing, the third act of DOS was entirely invented, with Ravenhill they are messing with a very important part of the story, cinematically and book-wise.
Hidden text.When all is said and done and the EE is released, I think I'll be skipping the portion between Bilbo getting knocked out and waking up.
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews...
He also replied to some questions:
Other info:
No prologue...
1. At which point do the dwarves take off their armor and why?
2. When the important dwarves are at Ravenhill, what are the other dwarves up to?
3. Is Thorin's funeral in? Are the last 20 mins as rushed as another reviewer said it was?
4. How are the "big" moments from the book handled?
5. Without spoiling too much about the last 5-10 mins, how well was Bilbo's return to The Shire handled?
Hidden text.
Other info:
No prologue...
Hidden text.
BIG SPOILER RE: Azog and Thorin...Hidden text.
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
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