Impeachment

[elengil]

https://www.newsweek.com/this-third-imp ... on-1477019

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Democrat Max Rose of Staten Island, one of the most vulnerable House Democrats, announced today that he will vote in favor of impeachment.

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[Voronwë the Faithful]

This pretty much sums up my opinion of Mitch McConnell's comments this weekend about coordinating with the White House on the impeachment trial.

[Dave_LF]

I'm kind of curious about what "the precious" is, actually. Because *something* is being used to keep everyone except Amash functioning in lockstep, and that's not an easy thing to achieve with dozens of wealthy, entitled people.

[Jude]

Technically, you're comparing Trump to Frodo. And this short period in Gollum's life was actually the closest he came to redemption.

I think the analogy needs some work

[RoseMorninStar]

I think Moscow Mitch is supposed to be Gollum in the meme and he's serving Sauron@Barad-dûr/Trump tower.

It's either got to be that the Republican party knows that campaign money is flowing in from Moscow via NRA, etc... or judicial choices (?) That's all I got. It's a bizarre situation. They aren't even attempting to fulfill their duty and be impartial jurors.

[Cerin]

Coordination between a president under impeachment and congressional leaders of his own party is not unprecedented. During his 1999 impeachment trial, for instance, President Bill Clinton was in contact with Democratic senators, according to “The Breach,” a book about the impeachment. Clinton’s White House staff, meanwhile, was in touch with Democratic Senate staff at the time, as well.

WaPo

It should be clear to anyone listening that the Republicans view the impeachment as a politically motivated sham. As they note, there was talk of impeachment before Trump even took office and the Democrats have been striving to find a workable pretext his entire term. I think it's also clear that any Republican voting to impeach Trump is going to have a problem with the voters. Trump is very popular among Republican voters.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

That quote is very misleading if you do not include the very next paragraph:

But the top Senate Democrat then, Sen. Thomas A. Daschle (S.D.), was much more meticulous than McConnell has been about maintaining the semblance of a fair trial process in his public statements. Daschle worked with the Senate majority leader at the time, Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.), to write compromise rules that were approved by all 100 senators.

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[Cerin]

You'll note that it says (emphasis added), 'maintaining the semblance of a fair trial process <snip>.' Why the heck should the Republicans pretend to be impartial after that grossly partisan exercise in the House? No one in Washington is impartial, and any such pretense would be idiotic, imo.

[yovargas]

Why the heck should the Republicans pretend to be impartial after that grossly partisan exercise in the House?

Because of the significant amount of evidence that the president abused his power and obstructed justice and it is their job to be a check against the executive branch?

[Cerin]

Why the heck should the Republicans pretend to be impartial after that grossly partisan exercise in the House?

Because of the significant amount of evidence that the president abused his power and obstructed justice and it is their job to be a check against the executive branch?

The Republicans don't see a 'significant amount of evidence,' they see a bunch of hearsay that was brought forth in an unfair and one-sided process from career employee Trump-hater holdovers from the Obama administration who are part of a coordinated effort to overthrow the election. So with this as their reality, why should they pretend to be impartial? What is the value of pretense here?

I think it's pretty rich that Schumer is now disingenuously asking for witnesses when the Republicans were denied witnesses during the House proceedings. On a personal level, I hope McConnell shows Schumer every consideration the Republicans were shown by Schiff and Nadler.

[yovargas]

The Republicans don't see a 'significant amount of evidence,'

Yes they do. They're doing a very good job of pretending they don't and then distracting people by complaining endlessly about the process, but there is no doubt in my mind that they see it.

[Cerin]

Well, I don't read minds. I listen to what people say.

[yovargas]

When you say someone is being "blatantly partisan", which you have said many times, you are interpreting what their true motivations are. So no, I don't think you would be foolish enough to only listen to what politicians say.

As a sidenote, I'd like to hear what witnesses Republicans were supposedly denied, as I suspect that is more false right wing propaganda.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

The witnesses that the Republicans were denied were the whistleblower, Hunter Biden, a former DNC contractor named Alexandra Chalupa who they allege against all evidence coordinated with the Ukraine government to interfere in the 2016 election, and Adam Schiff, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.

[elengil]

The witnesses that the Republicans were denied were the whistleblower, Hunter Biden, a former DNC contractor named Alexandra Chalupa who they allege against all evidence coordinated with the Ukraine government to interfere in the 2016 election, and Adam Schiff, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.

So... requests they made specifically knowing they would be denied just so they could carry on about being denied their requests.

[River]

Cerin, in your mind, do two wrongs make a right? Because it's pretty clear that you think the House is taking the wrong approach and that seems to be your justification for McConnell's "wham, bam, thank you ma'am" approach to the Senate impeachment trial. Just keep in mind that when you add negatives you only get more negative...

Allowing witnesses in the Senate impeachment trial could give the trump Administration they (and you, apparently) so desperately crave. Hell, allowing Bolton and Mulvaney to speak under oath in any venue could do it. Or not. It's mighty suspicious that they've been silenced. Especially after Mulvaney publicly stated that the aid to Ukraine was made contingent on an announced investigation into Hunter Biden and Burisma and then publicly walked it back.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

The Republicans don't see a 'significant amount of evidence,' they see a bunch of hearsay that was brought forth in an unfair and one-sided process from career employee Trump-hater holdovers from the Obama administration who are part of a coordinated effort to overthrow the election.

I'm not sure if you are just stating what the Republicans think, or if you are stating what you believe to be true, but it is worth pointing out that this is simply not the case. Ambassador Taylor is a long-serving diplomat who served under both parties, and was specifically brought in to run the Ukrainian embassy after Ambassador Yovanovitch was recalled by Trump's own Secretary of State, Pompeo. Fiona Hill is a hardcore conservative who was brought into government service under George W. Bush and left just months after Obama came into office, and did not come back until she was brought into the NSC by Trump. Col. Vindman is a long-serving army officer and veteran of both Iraq and Afghanistan with no history of any partisan leanings, who was not brought into the NSC until 2018, well into the Trump administration. Tim Morrison, who replaced Fiona Hill, is another long-time Republican who had no role in the Obama administration. And, of course, Gordon Sondland was a political appointee with no previous diplomatic experience who was rewarded with a plum ambassadorship to the EU in response to his million dollar grant to the Trump inaugural committee and specifically designated by Trump himself to engage in an usual diplomatic process with Ukraine despite the fact that Ukraine is not part of the EU. Not a single one of the witnesses is a "Trump-hater holdovers from the Obama administration". As for all they see being a bunch of hearsay, the most damning evidence is the administration's own summary of Trump's call with Zelensky, plus Sondland's descriptions of Trump's own words (along with the reports by Morrison, David Holmes, another longtime foreign service officer who served administrations from both parties, and others, about what Sondland said that Trump said).

[yovargas]

The witnesses that the Republicans were denied were the whistleblower, Hunter Biden, a former DNC contractor named Alexandra Chalupa who they allege against all evidence coordinated with the Ukraine government to interfere in the 2016 election, and Adam Schiff, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.

Thank you. As absurd as expected.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

There were three others that I forgot to mention, all in the same general category: Fusion GPS contractor Nellie Ohr; Former Burisma board member Devon Archer; and an intelligence community employee who Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman did not identify during his testimony before the House Intelligence Committee (who I assume is the person that some Republicans believe is the whistleblower).