2016 United States Election

[Voronwë the Faithful]

A wise woman (that I am lucky enough to live with) pointed out that morning that the signs of Hillary Clinton's eventual loss were evident during the primary season in the vile conduct by a relatively small segment of Sander's supporters, the so-called "Bernie Bros" who brought the misogyny that permeates our society above the surface. There are a lot of factors that led to her loss: the FBI fiasco, the Russian-generated WikiLeaks revelations, the news of the ACA rate hikes right before the election, her very unfortunate "basket of deplorables" comment, but the real reason was that the deck was stacked against her too much for her to overcome.

[Dave_LF]

I don't think either candidate was an inevitable winner or loser. The tally was basically 50/50, with the winner determined by a legal technicality. If we'd held the election ten times on ten different days without revealing the numbers and then averaged them to determine the final result, things could very well have come out the other way.

[yovargas]

It's possible to be part of the elite while being despised by other members of the elite. The elite is not one single monolithic homogenous group.

I'm coming to think that "elite" is actually code for "thinker" or "informed" or "experienced". Trump may be a tax-dodging billionaire New Yorker handed down his father's wealth, but he hates foreigners and thinks climate change is a hoax so he's not really an "elite".

This is in no way a rejection of "elites". It's a rejection of reason in favor of gut emotion. It's a celebration of ignorance and fear.

[Cerin]

I do not deny "their misery", but I absolutely deny that Trump is in even the slightest way any sort of rational response to it.

I agree with you there, it was not a rational response. (I'm not sure something has to be rational to be logical? The outcome was logical given our economic and political realities, but the fact that Trump was viewed as the solution, I agree, is not rational. I think that has more to do with his abilities as a huckster than with anything else.)


Voronwë, the idea that Hillary Clinton, with most of the money, all of the powerful interests behind her and all of the media endorsements had the deck stacked against her in this election strikes me as peculiar.

If what you're saying is that women in general have the decked stacked against them in this country, in any given situation, well, I suppose that's true.

[Alatar]

Roddy Doyle

-You know over in the States, the blue-collar workers tha’ they say voted for Trump?
-What abou’ them?
-Well, that’s us, isn’t it? We’re blue-collar, aren’t we? If we were over there.
-S’pose so.
-Even though your collar’s a bit grey an’ I’ve no collar at all. Unless a hoodie has a collar, does it?
-No, a hoodie has a hood. That’s the f*ckin’ point.
-Thanks for the fashion tip, Melania.
-F*ck off.
-Annyway. We’re blue-collar. Workin’ class.
-So, you’re wonderin’ if we’d have voted for Trump if we were over there.
-Kind of.
-No f*ckin’ way.
-Are yeh sure, but?
-Yeah. I think so. Anyway, it’s different here.
-How is it?
-Well, are you angry?
-No – sometimes, just. The water charges. Things like tha’ - unfairness. But, like, the gays are grand and the women I know are brilliant an’ I’ve no problem with the Africans. I’m a bit miserable but, generally, I’m grand.
-Maybe it’s just America.
-That’s wha’ I was thinkin’. But then I heard abou’ this letter that’s been doin’ the rounds in the HSE. Old people who take up hospital beds bein’ referred to as ‘trespassers’.
-An’ your collar started to feel very blue.
-Yeah.

[Cerin]

I'm coming to think that "elite" is actually code for "thinker" or "informed" or "experienced". Trump may be a tax-dodging billionaire New Yorker handed down his father's wealth, but he hates foreigners and thinks climate change is a hoax so he's not really an "elite".

Yes, 'elite' means more than money.

This is in no way a rejection of "elites". It's a rejection of reason in favor of gut emotion. It's a celebration of ignorance and fear.

Yes, this is most emphatically a rejection of the elite ruling order in this country. It is a thumb to the nose, a raised middle finger, an attempt to throw a spanner into the works that have smoothly been humming along for decades enriching those at the top and leaving the rest of the country behind. It may also be other things, but it certainly is that.

[Frelga]

In case you are not feeling angry enough or have any doubts what Trump's victory means
https://twitter.com/kayleighcat/status/ ... 4358536192

[Inanna]

[Primula Baggins]

The racists feel vindicated. Time to flex their muscles and step on a few people. I'm afraid we will see a lot of this, at least for a while. Many of his most fervent supporters (God help me, I don't want to even type his name) probably believe that he's already president and that all the rules instantly changed when he assumed power.

Some white kids marched through a high school in York, PA, today, chanting "White power!"

[Maria]

(God help me, I don't want to even type his name)

He who must not be named.

[Jude]

You-know-who.

[RoseMorninStar]

I am going to put on my (tinfoil) hat and make some predictions. Putin has said he has 'been in touch with' Trump during his campaign. It is my prediction that they will team up to take the oil in the middle-east, possibly using nuclear weapons, then start a (at the least) trade war with China. If that comes to pass, Chinese-Americans will have a target on their backs just as other minorities Trump has targeted.

As for deck stacked against Hillary, yes, I think there has been a good deal of 'whitelash' and there are many in this country who have a problem with women as bosses. But the witch-hunt on Hillary has been relentless. The Bush administration lost far more e-mails but do we hear about that? No. There are many in public office who have/had private e-mail servers; Sarah Palin, Scott Walker, Colin Powell, just to name a few. Far more people died in attacks on Embassies during Bush's reign, but he was never vilified the way Hillary was for Bengahzi. Do I think Trump gives 2 shakes about abortion or pro-life issues? Now that he has been elected, no. It's a tool they use to reel-in single issue voters.

How anyone can back someone who doesn't pay taxes (and can well afford to) and is not invested in this country is a disgrace.

[Cerin]

Many of his most fervent supporters (God help me, I don't want to even type his name) probably believe that he's already president and that all the rules instantly changed when he assumed power.

I think this kind of contemptuous attitude is one of the things that brought so many rural Americans out to vote for Trump.

There were people who'd voted for Obama twice who voted for Trump this time. Not every Trump voter was a racist Neanderthal. Becoming a hate-filled bigot yourself probably won't improve the overall tone of discourse in the next four years.

[RoseMorninStar]

I find it very difficult that anyone can support a racist, sexist, bigot for the highest office in the land and then claim they are not racist, sexist, and bigoted. They are supporting it and condoning it. Not much difference.

[Frelga]

I find it very difficult that anyone can support a racist, sexist, bigot for the highest office in the land and then claim they are not racist, sexist, and bigoted. They are supporting it and condoning it. Not much difference.

Thank you, this exactly.

[Primula Baggins]

Many of his most fervent supporters (God help me, I don't want to even type his name) probably believe that he's already president and that all the rules instantly changed when he assumed power.

I think this kind of contemptuous attitude is one of the things that brought so many rural Americans out to vote for Trump.

There were people who'd voted for Obama twice who voted for Trump this time. Not every Trump voter was a racist Neanderthal. Becoming a hate-filled bigot yourself probably won't improve the overall tone of discourse in the next four years.

I must not have written that right, if you read my despair as contempt, and anything I wrote as being about all Trump voters.

I do firmly predict that we will see many incidents like the ones Frelga linked to, and for the reasons I stated. Sure, all sorts of people voted for Trump, but it's the armed racists who put him over the top that I'm most worried about. I hope it recedes as time goes on, but I have been wrong in every hopeful thing I've ever said about Trump or this particular branch of his followers so far. Hillary kept saying "Love trumps hate," but my best guess is that we're going to see an extended demonstration of Trump trumping hope.

[River]

Voters own the votes they cast. There is nothing flattering to be said about anyone who willingly brushed past Trump's Ku Klux Klan endorsement and voted for him.

[Cenedril_Gildinaur]

Both the leading candidates had a KKK endorsement, so the only way to vote for a candidate not endorsed by the KKK was to vote 3rd party.

[Primula Baggins]

Link?

[Frelga]

http://www.snopes.com/kkk-endorses-hillary-clinton/

Spoiler alert - it's not true