Voting concerns for the upcoming election

[halplm]

voter suppression is a problem, for BOTH parties. It is not a republican conspiracy.

The law already punishes voter suppression, but it is difficult to enforce. On the other hand, it is possible to enforce registration laws ahead of time, and they should be enforced.

If you can prevent fraud, why would you not?

Why would you support a system that promotes fraud, when you can just as easily prevent it, AND protect the voters by allowing them to vote just by showing up, and verifying their information later?

You're afraid it will cause a problem, but it hasn't happened yet, so how can you possibly know? Because Republicans have a "long history of voter suppression?" Well guess what, so do Democrats.

[Ellienor]

The only history I care about is 2000 and 2004. And demonstrably, in Ohio and Florida, there was significant disenfranchisement of a significant number of voters, carried out under Republican Secretaries of State, which disadvantaged and disenfranchised traditional Democratic type voters almost exclusively.

Please show me something that shows voter disadvantage and disenfranchisement from 2000 and 2004 which was carried out by Democrats.

This year is scary because so many voters have been purged, particularly in my home state, a swing state, Colorado.

http://coloradoindependent.com/11004/no ... urge-story

[Primula Baggins]

Here's one of a number of incidents related to this election:

CROWN POINT, Ind. (AP) — A judge weighing whether to close down early voting sites in Lake County’s Democratic strongholds questioned local officials about the absentee voting process during visits to the disputed sites.

Lake County Superior Court Judge Diane Kavadias-Schneider toured the Gary, Hammond and East Chicago satellite voting sites Monday and heard hours of testimony and arguments on whether they are legal and fair.

Republicans want to shut down the centers in the largely Democratic county on the grounds that they will increase the likelihood of vote fraud in the Nov. 4 election.

When Kavadias-Schneider asked, “What of those who have already voted?” R. Lawrence Steele, a GOP lawyer, replied, “Maybe those votes should be discarded.”
...

Kavadias-Schneider asked LaSota on Monday about possibly opening even more early in-person voting centers in suburban communities in response to Republican complaints that Democrats have opened voting in the county’s three largest Democratic strongholds.

But Steele told the judge that Republicans don’t want more early voting centers open — they want the Gary, Hammond and East Chicago’s centers closed.

Democrats say the additional early voting centers are needed and appropriate because they are located in branches of the county clerk’s offices. Some Democrats say Republicans are trying to suppress the vote in urban areas that have large minority and low-income residents, who may favor Obama over Republican John McCain.

Link

[halplm]

First question, Prim... IS it legal? That's what the republicans were arguing, that it was not.

It is obvious why the Democrats want them open early, because the longer they're open the more votes you can collect.

However, there are reasons we have elections on one day, and fraud is one of them. Having everyone vote on the same day is not voter suppression. Having the voting happen over weeks, invites fraud (mostly of the unintentional variety).

Here is some voter intimidation for you :

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08297/922320-100.stm

Pittsburgh Police are investigating a report by a campaign staffer for John McCain that she was mugged and the letter B was cut into her face following a robbery in Bloomfield last night.

Police say the 20-year-old woman, who is from Texas, reported that the attack occurred after she withdrew money from an ATM at Liberty Avenue and Pearl Street.

She said a man armed with a knife demanded her money. She gave it to him and began walking toward her car, which has McCain stickers.

Although the robber had moved away from her, he became agitated when he saw her car, punched her in the back of the head, pushed her to the ground and carved a B into her face, she reported.

Police said the woman declined medical treatment at the scene.

[Primula Baggins]

A mugging? It's horrific, of course, but there are lots of muggings every day. What makes this one voter intimidation?

As for the other thing—so the only way to prevent voter fraud is to make it as difficult as possible for people to vote? How does that work, exactly?

[halplm]

A mugging? It's horrific, of course, but there are lots of muggings every day. What makes this one voter intimidation?

As for the other thing—so the only way to prevent voter fraud is to make it as difficult as possible for people to vote? How does that work, exactly?

Well, I know I would never put a sticker on my car that would get me mugged. And I have personally experience trepidation in voting in South Long Beach since if anyone found out what I was voting, I could certainly face violence. The fact someone carved up someones face, means other peopel will see it, and be intimidated by it.

I did not say the only way to prevent voter fruad is to make it as difficult as possible for people to vote. In fact, a while ago, I said the most effective way to prevent fraud was to accurately educate people on how to vote correctly.

[Primula Baggins]

You still don't explain how this is related to the election at all. As I said, muggings happen all the time. Why not say she was mugged for wearing a green sweater, or driving a Toyota? Why is the only significant detail the McCain sticker? And what does "B" mean?

As for voter suppression in Republican history, here's Paul Weyrich in 1980:

For a glimpse at what may well be the Rosetta Stone of Republican disenfranchisement efforts, one need look no further than at what Paul Weyrich, one of the founding fathers of modern American conservatism, told a gathering of some 15,000 preachers at a training conference in Dallas, Texas in 1980 (at which both Ronald Reagan and the right-wing Rev. Jerry Falwell also shared the podium).

"Many of our Christians have what I call the goo-goo syndrome - good government. They want everybody to vote," Weyrich instructed the flock in comments captured on video.

"I don't want everybody to vote," he continued unapologetically. "Elections are not won by a majority of people, they never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now."

And here comes the key to what will be the most crucial driving force for the entire Republican party effort this November: "As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down."

Link

[halplm]

B is for Barack, I imagine.

Did anyone read the Wiki article on Cook County? I don't know that there's a better example of Democratic manipulation of elections. Prim, what's your point? We can bring up examples on both sides all day long, but there are clearly problems with this election, on both sides, or all sides even.

The only reason to talk about them is because you want to be able to claim the election was stolen if you lose.

[Primula Baggins]

B is for Barack, I imagine.

I'll say it again: Nothing in the article provides any evidence that this incident had anything to do with the election.

As for the election, it won't be stolen. Turnout will be huge, and the margin of victory will be beyond dispute.

Then maybe some attention will be paid to making the voting process work and making sure it's clean and fair, as decent people of all political stripes (including you and me) want.

[River]

Given that Barack Obama is popularly known as Obama, I'd be surprised it's a B and not an O that's getting carved into faces as an act of voter intimidation. Maybe the B was for "b****"?

[halplm]

B is for Barack, I imagine.

I'll say it again: Nothing in the article provides any evidence that this incident had anything to do with the election.

If you can read the story that way, there's no point in discussing it with me.

As for the election, it won't be stolen. Turnout will be huge, and the margin of victory will be beyond dispute.

Then maybe some attention will be paid to making the voting process work and making sure it's clean and fair, as decent people of all political stripes (including you and me) want.

I too, think the margin will be beyond dispute, but I think the Democrats will dispute it.

[Primula Baggins]

Well, we'll see which universe turns out to be real in about 12 days.

[Erunáme]

If you can read the story that way, there's no point in discussing it with me.

So basically, "Unless you agree with me, I'm not discussing this with you".

My first thought was the same as River's. Why carve a 'B' when pretty much everyone calls him Obama? Much more likely the 'B' means something nasty like b****.

[River]

Though the Obama campaign felt compelled to issue this:

This is a horrendous act of violence. Our thoughts and prayers are with the young woman for her to make a speedy recovery, and we hope that the person who perpetrated this crime is swiftly apprehended and brought to justice.

I'm still thinking the B stood for b**** but I guess a candidate can't be too careful.

[Cerin]

There's been a ruling in the Indiana case Prim cited earlier. The judge ruled that the early voting centers will remain open.

McClatchy newspapers

Schneider was appointed by the Indiana supreme court to preside over the case brought by John B Curley, chairman of the Lake County Indiana Republican Central Committee, and Jim B Brown, a member of the Lake county board of elections, and others.

The plaintiffs alleged that early voting sites in the three cities should not have been opened because there was no unanimous vote by the Lake county board of elections approving the locations.

Attorneys from the other side said no unanimous vote was needed by the election board because the three locations - one in each city - are in government offices and not "satellite" voting sites. The election board must give unanimous approval for a satellite voting site. Closing the sites would disenfranchise poor and minority voters, the same attorneys said.

[Primula Baggins]

That's good news. The vote-suppressing side has generally not been prevailing this time, I've noticed.

[TheEllipticalDisillusion]

There is the fringe opinion and then there is an opinion fully supported. I'm not saying which is which, but as I said in the Lasto thread, there is a fringe opinion and a supported one. Evidence is the difference maker.

[Dave_LF]

Regarding the "B" story, the police checked the security cameras at the bank and discovered she was never even there. She's also changed her story and is being given a lie-detector test:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id ... _article=1

[Primula Baggins]

The Pittsburgh CBS affiliate is reporting on its website that she's now admitted she made up the whole thing. Charges are apparently going to be filed against her.

Link

If this is true, it's sad that she got so carried away. It's going to haunt her for a while, and she's only 20.

[ToshoftheWuffingas]

The news report that I read said the B was backwards.

Like you would get if you used a mirror to do it.

And if you were dumb.

But thanks for drawing our attention to it hal. I've been able to draw some conclusions from it.