Peace in Northern Ireland?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

The news today that long time enemies Ian Paisley, leader of the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP), and Gerry Adams, head of the mainly Catholic Sinn Fein, sat side by side for the first time today to announce a ground-breaking power-sharing agreement struck me, at least from the point of view of an outsider, as a remarkable piece of news. It appears that economic forces are driving this agreement, and that may well be a glue that helps cement it in place. I am curious, however, to know what people more knowledgable and closer to the situation than I think. Is this as significant as it seems, or just lip service destined to prove illusory?

[Pearly Di]

For those of us who lived through the Troubles - OK, so I didn't exactly have firsthand experience of them but I certainly remember all the IRA bombings in London over three decades, and my English birth-mother has lived in Ulster since 1963, so she certainly lived through the Troubles - it is gobsmacking to see Big Ian and Gerry Adams finally bury the hatchet and sit side by side. It's like seeing Nelson Mandela shake hands with De Klerk.

Both men have come a long way. Big Ian more than Adams, I think. I've always regarded Adams as one hell of a smooth operator. I don't like him much - Gerry Adams has a lot of blood on his hands. But Sinn Feinn and the IRA had to be negotiated with, otherwise this whole situation could never have come about. Big Ian has made a huge paradigm shift. I can't help wondering how the most hardcore people in his constituency will regard this though.

Ian Paisley could have been such a catalyst for good and for change in Northern Ireland these past decades, so great was his influence amongst the Protestant/Loyalist majority population. Instead, he was a major voice in opposing the civil rights fought for by Catholics in the 1960s. His toxic mixing of his religion with his politics has been a baleful force, IMO. If only he could have been a moderate Christian voice, arguing for peaceful change and reconciliation between the two communities.

Not that I want to sound too sympathetic to the IRA or anything.

I remarked to my housemate yesterday that it is remarkable how Adams and Paisley have mellowed. I guess they've both been enemies in this war for so long that they reckoned it was time they mellowed.

"Yes," said my housemate shrewdly, "and to make sure that history remembers them."

She's such a cynic.

I think this is significant, right enough. Some of us thought that peace would never come to Northern Ireland. The last IRA bombing was Omagh, August 1998, and the worst.

But then I guess some of us never imagined the Berlin Wall would fall.

[elfshadow]

I hardly know anything about Northern Ireland politics, but I hope beyond all hope that this agreement proves to be significant. There can never be enough peace in this world.

When I was in Dublin earlier this month I saw Gerry Adams speak at a Sinn Fein rally. Obviously every politician will speak to their audience and since I'm not from the area I can't know what kind of skew there might have been in his words, but his message seemed to be one of unity--and more than that, fixing economic and social crises such as health care and drug use. Nothing in his words sounded especially radical, although the party is deeply rooted in some pretty extremist ideals, so one does have to take what he says with more than a few grains of salt.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Wow, that must have been interesting, Elsha!

When you say his message was one of unity, I presume you mean unity between both sides, not just unity among his supporters?

more than that, fixing economic and social crises such as health care and drug use.

This is what I find most encouraging; it really sound like they are going beyond the lip service and approaching this power-sharing as a way of addressing these issues.

[elfshadow]

It was very interesting, V, and I'm really glad I got to see him speak. I was in town at the right time and my aunt and uncle and I just happened to see some flyers posted about the rally and decided to attend. It was quite an experience!

And yes, his message of unity seemed to me to be that of agreement or compromise between parties. But like you said, the most encouraging part was seeing that the platform of discussion had moved beyond cultural differences to social issues that generally transcend traditional conflicts.

[vison]

Ulster is littered with Protestant relatives of mine, and many of them are ardent admirers of Ian Paisley. Some of them even attend his church, he is their pastor, or was.

I don't think for one minute that this man has changed one whit or one iota. I think he is looking, as someone above said, to his "legacy" in history. But I think the important reason is he knows if he doesn't move with the times the times will continue to move without him and he is far too fond of being "at the centre". Being a figure of power and influence is more important to him than anything else and whatever he is, he's not stupid, he knows things are changing and he will go along with the appearance of it, for the sake of keeping his grip on power.

He is a completely loathsome man, IMHO, no better than Gerry Adams. Two of a kind. They have far more in common than they have differences. Their "religion" is power.

When some of the Belfast cousins moved to Canada the kinfolk here had to tell them that kind of thing doesn't go over very well in Toronto or Vancouver. You have to hear it, to believe it.

[Pearly Di]

Well.

If you'd told me, back in the early 1980s, that there would ever come a day when Big Ian would shake hands with Martin McGuinness ...



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6634373.stm

McGuinness will be Paisley's new deputy in the new Northern Ireland assembly. Astounding. Just astounding. They were laughing and joking like old pals. Battle-scarred warriors, having come to a truce at last. It's been a long war for them and their respective peoples.

He is a completely loathsome man, IMHO, no better than Gerry Adams.

My feelings about both Paisley and Adams are somewhat complex. Big Ian's 'no compromise' position and rabble-rousing stoked the Troubles. A lot of blood - Irish and British - was spilt on Gerry Adams's watch. In some odd way I feel a grudging admiration for both men, for how far they've come.

And all kudos to Blair, because he helped bring this about.

It never fails to sober me that as many people died on 9/11 as in three decades of bloody conflict in Ulster.

Not to minimise the Troubles, of course. They were horrible, and we are all glad to consign them to history's dustbin.

[Alatar]

Indeed Di. I was reminded once again of it all on Saturday, driving through Ennis town when I saw posters up remembering the Hunger Strikers on the anniversary of Sands death.

We have indeed come a long way, on all sides of the conflict.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Hopefully others can learn from those lessons.

[Pearly Di]

Indeed, V-man. Indeed.

Al ... wow yes, Bobby Sands. He died when I was a student. Those were grim days.

I do have a grudging respect for Margaret Thatcher for the way the old bat stood up to the IRA. I'll say this for the woman, she had guts.

However. This would never have happened on her watch.

It had to take compromise, from all sides. And probably it had to take this long, too, in order to get this level of working trust.

[ToshoftheWuffingas]

An awful lot of ordinary decent folk were tortured and murdered for these two ghastly men to agree to talk to each other. I may be grateful their opinions have changed but I can never bring myself to admire them.

[Pearly Di]

I guess not, Tosh. I guess not.

[Crucifer]

Nothing has changed.
Exactly the same deal is on the table as there was when Michael Collins signed the first treaty and caused the Civil War.
Exactly the same deal is on the table as when John Hume and David Trimble won the Nobel Peace Prize.
It has just been 30 years of pointless, stupid bloodshed, and the only result is that both sides have said
"I suppose they had the right idea 30 years ago. Let's go with that."

[solicitr]

But at least there may be a realization that the bloodshed was stupid and pointless, and produced nothing but more bloodshed.

The ultimate poitical arrangement is far less important than the resolve to reach it by throwing harsh language at each other rather than bombs.[/i]