The Tolkien Translation Game!

[Alatar]

Yeah, pretty much! Will post a new quote later...

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Superficially, though really he was gently mocking him. Here is the fuller exchange:

It was at the great Council held in 2851 that the "Halflings' leaf" was first spoken of, and the matter was noted with amusement at the time, though it was afterwards remembered in a different light. The Council met in Rivendell, and Gandalf sat apart, silent, but smoking prodigiously (a thing he had never done before on such an occasion), while Saruman spoke against him, and urged that contrary to Gandalf's advice Dol Guldur should not yet be molested. Both the silence and the smoke seemed greatly to annoy Saruman, and before the Council dispersed be said to Gandalf: "When weighty matters are in debate, Mithrandir, I wonder a little that you should play with your toys of fire and smoke, while others are in earnest speech."

But Gandalf laughed, and replied: "You would not wonder if you used this herb yourself. Yon might find that smoke blown out cleared your mind of shadows within. Anyway, it gives patience, to listen to error without anger. But it is not one of my toys. It is an art of the Little People away in the West: merry and worthy folk, though not of much account, perhaps, in your high policies."

Or did Gandalf have a deeper purpose. The text goes on:

Saruman was little appeased by this answer (for he hated mockery, however gentle), and he said then coldly: "You jest, Lord Mithrandir, as is your way. I know well enough that you have become a curious explorer of the small: weeds, wild things and childish folk. Your time is your own to spend, if you have nothing worthier to do; and your friends you may make as you please. But to me the days are too dark for wanderers' tales, and I have no time for the simples of peasants."

Gandalf did not laugh again; and he did not answer, but looking keenly at Saruman he drew on his pipe and sent out a great ring of smoke with many smaller rings that followed it. Then he put up his hand, as if to grasp them, and they vanished. With that he got up and left Saruman without another word; but Saruman stood for some time silent, and his face was dark with doubt and displeasure.

This story appears in half a dozen different manuscripts, and in one of them it is said that Saruman was suspicious,

doubting whether he read rightly the purport of Gandalf's gesture with the rings of smoke (above all whether it showed any connexion between the Halflings and the great matter of the Rings of Power, unlikely though that might seem); and doubting that one so great could concern himself with such a people as the Halflings for their own sake merely.

In another (struck through) Gandalf's purpose is made explicit:

It was a strange chance, that being angered by his insolence Gandalf chose this way of showing to Saruman his suspicion that desire to possess them had begun to enter into his policies and his study of the lore of the Rings; and of warning him that they would elude him. For it cannot be doubted that Gandalf had as yet no thought that the Halflings (and still less their smoking) had any connection with the Rings. 23 If he had had any such thought, then certainly he would not have done then what he did. Yet later when the Halflings did indeed become involved in this greatest matter, Saruman could believe only that Gandalf had known or foreknown this, and had concealed the knowledge from him and from the Council – for just such a purpose as Saruman would conceive: to gain possession and to forestall him.

[Jude]

That's an interesting passage - I wonder if Gandalf had already begun to suspect Saruman of treachery. That would explain why he asked Radagast to spread the word that he was venturing into Saruman's lair.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Al?

[Alatar]

Sorry! Up the walls...

[Inanna]

At Helm’s Deep? Legolas? Or maybe Gimli?

[Alatar]

Hah!

Not too far away, if your friends lived in a gold-walled pit, some of them wouldn't serve you a pint of beer.

[Inanna]

From the Hobbit?

[Alatar]

Nope

[scirocco]

So if not "The" Hobbit, then "a" hobbit. The Gaffer having a moan:

"There’s some not far away that wouldn’t offer a pint of beer to a friend, if they lived in a hole with golden walls."

[Alatar]

Thats it. Although the Gaffers not the one moaning, he's rebutting Sandyman for moaning..

[scirocco]

Okay then. Another hobbit speaking:

"Hey! You're a beggar who stepped on Marish! What are you doing here? There's an arrow in your hat!"

[Jude]

Does the person being addressed actually have an arrow in his hat?

[scirocco]

No, I think not. Despite the tone, the speaker is joking, and the recipient is not really a beggar in the usual sense, and sems unlikely to really have been shot at. Although there is some evidence that he may have been just previously. It's not clear whether this past is truth or legend or jesting insult. So the hat decoration may or may not have been real. (Unlike his normal hat decoration, which IS real).

Edit: The text says there are arrows, so I suppose I should answer your question by saying "yes, there were arrows".

The translated sentence is actually in reply to an equally jokingly insulting comment from the supposed beggar to the hobbit.

There is no animosity and the two participants ride off laughing together.

Edit: In a sense, the "beggar" really is a beggar in some respects, since he owns nothing and has no money to buy a drink in the pub in Rushey. There's a grain of truth in every good jesting insult.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I'm completely confused. What pub in Rushey? Are we actually talking about something in The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, or The SIlmarillion?

[Jude]

Is Marish in the original, or is it some word that sounds like it?

[scirocco]

Tolkien never names the pub in Rushey, so I can’t tell you what it is. But the hobbit and the other person drive straight past it despite the temptation of going in (perhaps due to the other person’s lack of money).

The Marish referred to in both the original and the translation is the one and only Marish in the Shire.

The text is from Tolkien canon, published by him during his lifetime as legitimate Hobbit history (or if not history exactly, then legend). It’s not some early draft from HoME, or something cooked up by Christopher Tolkien, say.

It’s significant because it provides an important insight into two well-known characters of the Shire and surrounding areas.

[Inanna]

So it’s not from either TH, LOTR, Sil or UT?

These are the four sources used in this game.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Ah, ok, It is from "Bombadil Goes Boating" and it is Farmer Maggot to Tom Bombadil: 'Ho there! Beggarman tramping in the Marish! What's your business here? Hat all stuck with arrows!'

As Inanna mentioned, traditionally we have only used the three main texts, TH, LOTR and The Silmarillion, or UT if the quote is identified as being from that book in the beginning. I'm not sure that everyone who participates has copies of -- or are that familiar with -- either The Adventures of Tom Bombadil or Tales from the Perilous Realm, and it didn't even occur to me to look there.

[scirocco]

Yes, that’s the original, Voronwë. Quite funny to hear Tom and Maggot having a joking dig at each other. This poem makes sense of Gandalf’s statement about Tom having a great regard for Maggot.

Sorry, as a new pair of eyes to the game, I had assumed that the scope was M-E, and thus that if non-strict-canon texts like UT and Sil were allowed, then canon such as TATB and RGEO would surely be as well, because it would be strange to exclude those small portions despite their greater legitimacy.