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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:27 pm 
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Announcing the withdrawal serves as a warning. Hopefully, the time it will take for us to withdraw is comparable to the time it will take for the Kurds to shift posture. Then things will be back to the way they've always been. It doesn't sound quite so awful when you put it that way.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:30 pm 
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Other than reneging on a deal with an ally AND leaving an opening for a potential resurgence of ISIS. But who care about any of that. Especially the ally. Who needs allies when you can have Trump Towers Istanbul.

So far, no troops have moved and there've been rumors circulating today that Trump's reconsidering the whole idea. I will agree with him on one thing. His wisdom is unmatched.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:34 pm 
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River wrote:
I will agree with him on one thing. His wisdom is unmatched.


:agree:

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:46 pm 
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River wrote:
Other than reneging on a deal with an ally <snip>.

What was our deal with the Kurds? What exactly are we reneging on?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:00 pm 
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Turkey has begun its offensive against the US-Backed autonomous Kurdish region.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/turkey-begins-offensive-in-syria-11570627632

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:26 am 
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Fox News correspondent

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I just spoke to a distraught US Special Forces soldier who is among the 1000 or so US troops in Syria tonight who is serving alongside the SDF Kurdish forces. It was one of the hardest phone calls I have ever taken.

"I am ashamed for the first time in my career."


Read the whole thread. This is important.
https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/statu ... 76993?s=19

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:32 am 
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That's what they get for not being there when we needed them on D-day. Or something.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:23 pm 
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River wrote:
That's what they get for not being there when we needed them on D-day. Or something.


I assumed this was a joke of some sort. Then I find out it was a real statement. Genuinely hard to believe. The lows just keep getting lower.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:50 pm 
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Yov, I feel sorry for satirists these days. I don't know how they can do their jobs when you and I can have an exchange like this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:14 pm 
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River, last night Christiane Amanpour said something similar to the person she was interviewing & the interviewee said that would show a lack of imagination. All I could think was.. I dunno if my imagination wants to go there.

Cerin wrote:
River wrote:
Other than reneging on a deal with an ally <snip>.

What was our deal with the Kurds? What exactly are we reneging on?

This is hard to give a simple answer to as it's very complicated. You can read about the Syrian civil war from this Encyclopedia Britannica article if you want to know more.

From what I understand (and in an attempt to put it simply), we agreed to assist the Kurds in fighting ISIS (and also the Assad Regime who was using chemical weapons against his own people).

According to this article:
Quote:

When the Turks denied the United States passage into Iraq for the Iraqi Invasion of 2003, Iraqi Kurds took the opportunity to help the United States overthrow Saddam, once and for all. The Kurds also turned to American-led airstrikes to help repel the threat of ISIS in 2014.

While the Kurds still lack true independence, the United States has pledged support for Kurdistan in the form of arms and ammunition, as well as USAID to the Kurdish Regional Government (KRG).


We agreed to give the Kurds military aid so that they would put themselves on the front lines and fight ISIS themselves with limited human assistance from the US. Trump claims ISIS has been defeated, but the Kurds are holding more than 10,000 ISIS fighters in prison camps, which, if the Kurds are fighting/killed, the ISIS prisoners will likely be released and continue their reign of terror (one would imagine).

The US has lost about 6 soldiers in the conflict while (I had a hard time finding statistics) thousands, if not tens of thousands of Kurds have died. Statistics are difficult because so many are missing/unaccounted for or are refugees elsewhere. Our withdrawal emboldened Turkey & Russia to invade.

This article seems to break it down fairly well although it is several months old and does not include recent events.: Syria conflict: What do the US, Russia, Turkey and Iran want?


Edited to add: Trumps actions serves the Russian/Turkish narrative that the US/Americans cannot be trusted, we have no allies only interests, and that we (the US) does not keep it's promises. Letter in the Washington Post from Ilham Ahmed, co-president of the Democratic Council of Syria: We Fought Side By Side with Americans, Now They're Leaving Us to Our Fate.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:12 am 
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That still leaves me without an answer to the question, what specific promises have we broken, what deal have we reneged on in this instance? I've attempted to find an answer to that question without success. If we had a formal agreement to stay and protect the Kurds (from the danger they themselves created by using the distractions of Syria's civil war to set up an autonomous region where they knew Turkey would not tolerate it), then, of course, we should have kept that agreement. If we didn't have a formal agreement to stay and protect the Kurds, then we should have given them advance warning of our departure. However, I would point out that Trump has been pledging to get us out of Syria since before he was elected, and he even had a Sec. of Defense resign over his (Trump's) determination to leave Syria, so Trump's intentions have been known by all parties for years, as have Turkey's intentions to enforce a terror-free zone on their border, and their need for an area to settle Syrian refugees, who are arriving in their country in overwhelming numbers.

It may not have been the wisest thing to make an ally of a group who had a longstanding enmity with another of our allies. It was bound to become complicated.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:25 am 
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River wrote:
That's what they get for not being there when we needed them on D-day. Or something.
Today I learned that this statement is as wrong historically as it is nonsensical logically.
@ric_cole
Quote:
The #Kurds DID fight on the Allied side in WW2.
They helped break the siege after the 1941 pro-Nazi Coup d'état in Iraq & were part of the (pro-Allied) Iraq Levies.
In 1942 Kurds made up 25% of the force. By 1943, 10 of the 44 companies of Iraq Levies were Kurdish.


https://mobile.twitter.com/ric_cole/sta ... 28385?s=09

Interesting information in replies as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:49 am 
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Frelga wrote:
River wrote:
That's what they get for not being there when we needed them on D-day. Or something.
Today I learned that this statement is as wrong historically as it is nonsensical logically.
@ric_cole
Quote:
The #Kurds DID fight on the Allied side in WW2.
They helped break the siege after the 1941 pro-Nazi Coup d'état in Iraq & were part of the (pro-Allied) Iraq Levies.
In 1942 Kurds made up 25% of the force. By 1943, 10 of the 44 companies of Iraq Levies were Kurdish.


https://mobile.twitter.com/ric_cole/sta ... 28385?s=09

Interesting information in replies as well.


Yes, considering #cadetbonespurs nor any of his family were at Normany, or Vietnam, or Iraq or involved in service of any kind it is rather ironic. If I recall he said his 'Vietnam' was avoiding venereal disease. What a sacrifice. :roll: It's really disgusting when he denigrates the service of military personnel and those who put their lives on the line for their country (and I would add allies).

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:31 pm 
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I find myself incapable of a comment that would get through the word filter.

NBC

Quote:
BREAKING: Amid Pres. Trump's decision to remove US troops from northern Syria and his vocal criticisms of US military presence in Middle East, the Pentagon announces the deployment of more US troops and weapons to Saudi Arabia “to assure and enhance the defense of Saudi Arabia.”


https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1182 ... 06017?s=19

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:42 pm 
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:x :rage: :devil: :pullhair:

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:48 pm 
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Well obviously we still want to help the Saudis because of all the assistance they gave George Washington at the battle of Valley Forge International Airport.

:nono:

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:45 pm 
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It is this twisting of all things greedy into 'good and moral' and the overlooking of the immoral that really makes me sick. Black is white, up is down. It's a mockery. Deception. Everything he does is about money. Families can be torn apart, people can be slaughtered, but protect the oil fields! The shameless way the evangelical preachers use politics is disgusting. How easy it is to use the faith of people for devious and political purposes. Reminds me of all of the fore-warnings of false prophets/wolves in sheep's clothing. What Trump does not supporting Christian principles.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:16 pm 
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RoseMorninStar wrote:
Everything he does is about money. Families can be torn apart, people can be slaughtered, but protect the oil fields! .


I don't even think it's so broad as 'protect the oil', it seems to be far more directly 'protect my properties!'

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:54 pm 
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elengil wrote:
RoseMorninStar wrote:
Everything he does is about money. Families can be torn apart, people can be slaughtered, but protect the oil fields! .


I don't even think it's so broad as 'protect the oil', it seems to be far more directly 'protect my properties!'


Yes, I would add.. protect those who have money. The primary purpose of my rant, however, was pointing out the religious right's backing of this blatant evil behavior. They use (abuse) the the faith of their 'flock' through deception and political purposes for profit and gain.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:19 pm 
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As expected.

Isis militants break out of prison in Syria after bombing by Turkey

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