2016 United States Election

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I agree, yov.

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[Frelga]

Yeah, I have a lot of disrespect for Trump, but with something this'll serious I am willing to wait for evidence.

Even though I am aware how difficult it can be to provide evidence for this type of crime.

[Cerin]

That is a really terrible and irresponsible article referring to the rape lawsuit.

The author refers to it as a rape case, which implies that the accusations were assessed and charges filed in criminal court, which doesn't seem to be the case. The author brings Bill Cosby into the report -- as though Bill Cosby's habits, innocence or guilt have anything to do with Trump -- and declares that history is repeating itself. The author declares that the 'viability of the case must be analyzed now.' Surely this is preposterous. Certainly the allegations should be investigated -- by trained investigators and agents of the justice system. Once the lawsuit advances to court, the media would have something solid to report on.

The harm from false accusations is never wholly undone (some of you have already decided that Trump is a rapist, and nothing will ever expunge that idea from your minds). The accuser, on the other hand, loses nothing by a lack of media coverage at this point. The media outlets that ignored the filings were in the right, imo, and that author is a disgrace to the journalistic profession (if the journalistic profession can be any further disgraced, at this point).

[Cerin]

I think I've been the lone voice in saying I'm more alarmed by the reaction to Trump than by Trump himself. Here is an excellent example of what I mean:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... s-20160630

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Whatever else can be said about Trump, he can do things that no one else seems to be able to be capable off. Like making a blatantly anti-Semitic attack on someone who is not even Jewish. He tweeted this out today:

crooked hillary.png (440.84 KiB) Viewed 2882 times

Not even subtle.

[Primula Baggins]

Cerin, your comment that the journalistic profession cannot be more disgraced is as extreme as the reactions you attribute to people worried about Trump. Surely you know that. Diligent journalism has thrown light on many wrongs in this country that needed (or need) to be addressed. Discrediting the whole profession because it contains some sleazebags discredits the honest and valuable work that most journalists do.

[Frelga]

Holy shit.
Well, I've been wondering what's been taking him so long.

[yovargas]

Whatever else can be said about Trump, he can do things that no one else seems to be able to be capable off. Like making a blatantly anti-Semitic attack on someone who is not even Jewish. He tweeted this out today:

crooked hillary.png

Not even subtle.

Good lord.....I gotta laugh at the absurdity. But it is an awfully joyless laugh.

[Cerin]

Prim, I was thinking of the mainstream media's performance this election cycle when I made that comment, lumping television journalists in with their print colleagues. To be sure, there are still some independent journalists doing important investigative work, but they are ever fewer, as budget cuts and this administration's unprecedentedly vicious pursuit of truthtellers has a chilling effect. I think by and large, the profession of journalism has been largely disgraced in recent years in this country, basically acting as a mouthpiece for corporate and administration propaganda, so I stand by my comment, with the caveat that I do understand that there are still journalists who show courage and integrity in pursuing the truth.

[RoseMorninStar]

I read an article about this allegation a week or two ago. I'm not sure if this was the article, but it was similar. If I correctly recall, and I have no legal expertise what-so-ever, this accusation is not just being brought forth now, but it was a case years ago and the person (Jeffery Epstein) whose home the rapes occurred. That it was a case years ago lends it some credibility.

[River]

I saw that tweet a couple minutes ago. It was taken down quickly but not quickly enough. What kind of idiot makes that kind of mistake? Or was it a "mistake"? What kind of birds are flocking together on this campaign anyway? Seriously. WTF.

[Cerin]

How can one make an anti-Semitic attack on someone who isn't Jewish? Do we think Trump thinks Clinton is Jewish? (I would say, no.) So what are people taking as the import of that tweet? That Trump was disparaging Jews by putting the Star of David on the image of Clinton, associating Jews with the distrusted Clinton? Or that he was disrespecting Jews by putting the Star of David on the tweet, irrespective of its content?

[Frelga]

Are you actually kidding me right now?

[axordil]

My assumption concerning the tweet would be that it was a dog-whistle suggestion that Clinton is "owned" by "Jewish money" or some such, given some of the things Trump's people have said. There's clearly an anti-Semitic tinge to many of his supporters, almost unavoidable given the appeal to xenophobia the campaign is built around.

[River]

It's a dog whistle for a rather foul breed of dog.

There was a time, a very long time (I'm guessing it started with the Diaspora and went on until after WWII) when it was socially accepted and expected to treat Jews as The Other. One of the common beliefs that took hold during that time was that the Jews controlled the money and the media for their own sinister purposes. Nowadays, such beliefs are no longer considered acceptable or mainstream, but if you scratch the right surfaces in the right places you'll find that there are more than a few who never stopped believing that garbage. The image of Clinton in front of wads of cash with that Star of David thing plays into that belief. The message is that she's been bought by the Jews and she'll do what they want.

Spelling that out has actually made me feel a little ill so if any of that was unclear you'll have to find someone else to explain it further.

My husband has been calling Trump a fascist since day one and European friends of mine have contacted me fretting about similarities they see between Trump and a rather infamous person who died by self-inflicted gunshot in Berlin in 1945. I've tried to brush them off. Now though...

x-posted with Ax.

[Cerin]

Thank you, River and Ax.

No, Frelga, I wasn't kidding. I often seem to need these sorts of things spelled out for me.

[yovargas]

It is some very, very, very, very small consolation that somebody in the Trump camp thinks that that tweet crosses the line too far and took it down. That even in the sickening environment Trump has created, there are some things you really shouldn't say, even if it's what you quietly believe.

Utterly despicable.


Cerin - if it was not immediately obvious to you why that image was disgustingly vile, it might explain to some degree why Trump scares you less than he does many others. You may be missing some fairly clear signs that this man is not merely incompetent, but evil. Or at the very least, represents something evil. I do not use that word lightly.

[Inanna]

Actually, I totally missed the Star of David thing as well. It just brought the Microsoft add text star shape to my mind. That's because I didn't grow up with it in my cultural realm at all. It's how westerners freak out about the Hindu swastika.

[RoseMorninStar]

The Nazi's hijacked the symbol for 'good luck' and tainted it for many, unfortunately. My aunt has an old embroidered swastika among my great grandmothers things that pre-dates Nazi Germany.

Cerin, don't feel so bad, I didn't pick up on the anti-Semitic connection either. In politics it seem de rigueur to use 'code' that often only those of a similar ilk pick up on. This is often the case with fundamentalist religion/Christianity in American politics.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

In a bit of symmetry, this happened on the same day that Elie Wiesel, the Auschwitz survivor and Nobel Peace Prize winner, and probably the greatest opponent of all that Trump stands for, passed away.

"No human race is superior; no religious faith is inferior. All collective judgments are wrong. Only racists make them."
A very great man. Rest in peace, Elie Wiesel.