Deletion discussion

[anthriel]

I realise the debate has moved on to the meta-issue, so...you know, just leave me out of this.

Yes, good call. Please leave me out of it, too.

I really have nothing more to say on the subject, and was only trying to explain why people might do such a thing. Imp offers yet another reason, a reason I have chosen myself.

Anyway, yeah. I'm done.

[elfshadow]

I probably delete about 1/2 to 2/3 of the posts that I start before I even post them. I don't necessarily worry about offending people, it's just that...well, I can't decide if the post will be helpful to the discussion. And much of the time, I decide that it wouldn't be. So I just don't say anything.

[River]

I probably delete about 1/2 to 2/3 of the posts that I start before I even post them. I don't necessarily worry about offending people, it's just that...well, I can't decide if the post will be helpful to the discussion. And much of the time, I decide that it wouldn't be. So I just don't say anything.

Yeah, I do that too. Sometimes because it just seems pointless, sometimes I decide that I really don't want to share and deal with the attention or advice that will follow, and sometimes because I think I'll cause offense. I do not, as a rule, delete a post after I've hit "submit". You can't just unsay things. Even if you delete a post, it was seen and maybe even responded to. All taking it away does is leave the people who saw the original wondering if they're going insane.

[WampusCat]

I don't have a problem with people deleting posts (other than it making me insanely curious, and we know what curiosity does to wampuscats).

I have just one request for everyone:

Please do not engage in mind-reading. If you have decided you don't want to say what you said, fine. Delete. But please do not delete it because the lack of follow-up comments make you think nobody was interested or nobody cared or everyone thinks you're an idiot. Sometimes we're thinking. Or following other links to find out more. Or busy. Or so gobsmacked by your intellect/cleverness/insight/humor that we feel unworthy to respond.

I feel relatively certain that you are unable to read my mind. If I'm mistaken, let me know so I can clean it up.

[River]

But there's beauty in the mess...

[Pearly Di]

I can get very ticked off when nobody responds to anything I've posted. We've all been there, surely. We've all been thread-killers at some point in our time on the Internets. . And we've ALL posted something to which nobody responded.

I also like some fire and grit in Internet exchanges. Even on a very polite board. I mean, there's politeness and then there's over-cautiousness.

And Lord knows I've posted some dumb things in my time.

And I would hardly describe Impy as 'lightweight'. Because she ain't.

This has been a useful discussion. I often read things on the Net that I like but don't always react to. Mainly 'cause of time. And I have enough of a butterfly brain as it is, always darting from one thing to another.

Thanks to all for tolerating my drive-by posts! I will always value this place.

[Alatar]

I think everyone knows my feelings on post deletion, but I'll share them again for anyone who cares. Unless its sharing personal information that you want shared temporarily and you're flagging that when posting, its just not ok. If I had my way I would remove the delete button altogether. And the ability to edit after a response. You make a typo? Fine, edit it. Somebody disagrees vehemently with something you said? Sorry, that's the nature of discourse.

I think if we all knew our posts were tattooed onto the board irrevocably, it would make for better discussion. And yeah, I agree with Jewel, editing or deleting after the fact isn't fair. I'd go as far as to say its dishonest.

(This does not apply to Impy's case of deleting simply cause something appeared to be ignored)

[Frelga]

Well, I had occasionally read what I just posted, and saw that it came out all wrong, and yeah, deleted it. Usually, that happens within ten seconds out a post, and often I come back and say the same thing more coherently, but I don't want to give up the delete button altogether.

[JewelSong]

Please do not engage in mind-reading. If you have decided you don't want to say what you said, fine. Delete. But please do not delete it because the lack of follow-up comments make you think nobody was interested or nobody cared or everyone thinks you're an idiot. Sometimes we're thinking. Or following other links to find out more. Or busy. Or so gobsmacked by your intellect/cleverness/insight/humor that we feel unworthy to respond.

^^^THIS^^^

I also like some fire and grit in Internet exchanges. Even on a very polite board. I mean, there's politeness and then there's over-cautiousness.

^^^ALSO THIS^^^

I hope this discussion has moved way beyond the topic of my deleted post, because truly, my post was definitely not worth this kind of in-depth debate.

It was not lengthy, thoughtful, interesting, intriguing nor controversial. It was inane and lacking in any substance and added not a single thing to the topic of same sex marriage, and that's why I deleted it; because I was, once again, embarrassed by my lightweight non-contribution and I wanted to get rid of the evidence. So there you go

Well, the discussion HAS moved past your deleted post, but that WAS the impetus. On the off chance that you are still reading this thread, I would like to comment on your self-deprecating description above.

From what I understand, you posted a link to an article about one partner in a same-sex couple struggling with legal issues after his partner committed suicide. It was an excellent article and heartbreaking and was completely pertinent to the discussion of same-sex marriage.

When no one commented on the post, you deleted it because you felt "intimidated."

Then, yovargas posted the exact same link and a couple of people commented positively, at which point, you volunteered the info that you had posted the link previously, but then taken it down.

Obviously the link was pertinent and interesting to people. So it certainly DID add to the discussion. It was hardly anything to be embarrassed about. I can't imagine why you would call it "inane" - especially since the very same link elicited a good dialogue later.

Point being - leave up your links and posts, even if you DO think they are "lightweight." Your contributions are important...as important as anyone else's. Everything "adds to the discussion." People respond and take away what they will.

[anthriel]

I don't have a problem with people deleting posts (other than it making me insanely curious, and we know what curiosity does to wampuscats).

I have just one request for everyone:

Please do not engage in mind-reading. If you have decided you don't want to say what you said, fine. Delete. But please do not delete it because the lack of follow-up comments make you think nobody was interested or nobody cared or everyone thinks you're an idiot. Sometimes we're thinking. Or following other links to find out more. Or busy. Or so gobsmacked by your intellect/cleverness/insight/humor that we feel unworthy to respond.

I feel relatively certain that you are unable to read my mind. If I'm mistaken, let me know so I can clean it up.

I thoroughly agree with this. But the mind-reading is going on all over the place; people are assuming passive-aggressive motivations or even dishonesty when the real reason for deleting posts may be quite different.

Imp has already asked to be left out of this, so I'm not sure she's going to respond to the post directed at her. I asked to be left out of this, but I'm still responding, which means I am crazy, I think. Crazy, yes.

Dishonest? No. No, speaking as a 12-step Post Deleters Anonymous coin holder, I think I have been terribly honest on this board. Immodestly honest. I talked about my son's issues in BagEnd, for example, and was chewing my fingernails and pacing the whole time I was waiting for responses to that. A sane person wouldn't BE so honest, so vulnerable. I went out on a limb with that, as I have on so many topics. I'm sure my habits can be labeled with many a negative tag, but dishonesty really doesn't fit. IMHO.

Perhaps Jewel and Alatar will never completely understand this, because I don't believe either of them to have the same haunting doubts that I do. That level of inherent self-confidence must be a blessing, at times.

Maybe some people are deleting posts out of some sort of passive-aggressive practice, or inherent dishonesty, although I can't remember thinking that before. However, I don't believe anyone here is really all that adept at mind-reading, and assigning these motivations might be quite wrong. Which is why we have words, as clumsy as they are. Which is why we have discussions like this. So that we can learn from each other.

So. I am learning! I appreciate both of you sharing how it LOOKS... I can see both of your points, from your side. This has been a really strong experience for me. Even though I have heeded the more gentle encouragement I have received in the past and am (personally) much less prone to post deletion than I used to be, I will try to be more cautious in the future.

[JewelSong]

First off, Anthy, let me say that I have a great deal of admiration for you for continuing to participate in this discussion. I mean that.

Secondly, I agree with Pearl that this discussion is a good one, and perhaps overdue.

Meanwhile...

people are assuming passive-aggressive motivations or even dishonesty when the real reason for deleting posts may be quite different.

I do not believe that (most) folks who are second-guessing themselves and deleting posts after they have already been read/responded to are being deliberately passive-aggressive (my term) or dishonest (Alatar's word.)

I think (most of) the people who delete their posts in that fashion do so out of a (misplaced) sense of...politeness? Self-consciousness? Self-doubt? They delete because they believe - or have made themselves believe - that it is somehow "better for everyone" if their opinions/thoughts/arguments/contribution/whatever are NOT HEARD. They really have "nothing to contribute" anyway.

WRONG. Wrong, wrong, wrong. How can a board function if people's opinions are not heard?

And it IS passive-aggressive behavior...even if it is not deliberately so.

[yovargas]

Though I can see some specific and rare (around here) circumstances where it might be or seem passive-aggressive, I don't see at all why it would generally be the case. Certainly not for the reasons I understand Anthy has done it and she's pretty much the only one (or the only one brave enough to admit ) for whom this is kind of a regular thing.

[Pearly Di]

I think (most of) the people who delete their posts in that fashion do so out of a (misplaced) sense of...politeness? Self-consciousness? Self-doubt? They delete because they believe - or have made themselves believe - that it is somehow "better for everyone" if their opinions/thoughts/arguments/contribution/whatever are NOT HEARD. They really have "nothing to contribute" anyway.

This.

[anthriel]

Though I can see some specific and rare (around here) circumstances where it might be or seem passive-aggressive, I don't see at all why it would generally be the case. Certainly not for the reasons I understand Anthy has done it and she's pretty much the only one (or the only one brave enough to admit ) for whom this is kind of a regular thing.

WAS a regular thing!! WAS, darn it! Do you need to see the coin??






Thank you, Jewel, for your words of support about me staying in this thread. I am surprising even myself, a bit.


I will continue to disagree with you that the deletion of posts is, in my case anyway, ANY sort of passive-aggression. I think you are trying to read minds here, and coming away with the wrong "facts". At least in a blanket sense.

Again, I can't speak for everyone's motivations behind this behavior, but as someone with a fairly good picture of why at least ONE poster here has deleted posts, I will quite firmly disagree with deletion of posts is always exactly equal to passive-aggressive behavior (inadvertant or not). It may look like that to you, but no need to try to read my mind, here, I'll share with you what I'm thinking. For me? It is not ANY sort of aggression.

<deep breath>

It is, or was, a real (and valid(!)) concern that often I had gone too far with sharing very personal feelings or thoughts. Too MUCH honesty, too much transparency, just too too MUCH. That level of vulnerability, when the reality set in that that is what I had done, was overwhelming to me.

I turned into a newt, in essence. But I got better.

[Maria]

I've recently had a much higher percentage of posts where I type them and then and delete them before I hit "submit". I've been censoring myself about Lyme disease and it's bleeding over into everything else, too. I look at everything I might say with a too critical eye and thus very little gets said.

(and yes, I was this close to deleting this post before I realized how silly that was and hit "submit" anyway.)

[anthriel]

I've recently had a much higher percentage of posts where I type them and then and delete them before I hit "submit". I've been censoring myself about Lyme disease and it's bleeding over into everything else, too. I look at everything I might say with a too critical eye and thus very little gets said.

(and yes, I was this close to deleting this post before I realized how silly that was and hit "submit" anyway.)

I'm glad you did, Maria.

Why the self-censoring, though? I have noticed fewer posts from you, and thought that you were just busy. Why are you censoring yourself so heavily that you would doubt even this post?

If you decided you wanted to cool it on the Lyme disease thing, I respect that. But I am personally always interested in hearing you talk about your day, and I learn lots from you (see the chicken question in Bag End!).

So do you think people are tired of reading about Lyme disease, and its effect on your life? Not so fast, missy. I'm a microbiologist, for goodness sake. I talk about Lyme disease when you are not around. Lyme disease is standard lunch-table talk for me and my coworkers.

(We found spirochetes in someone's blood just the other day. It turned out to be Borrelia, but still. Spirochetes don't bore me. )

[Maria]

On that particular post it was a case of I had one more idea I wanted to mention but couldn't get it to come out right (and now I've forgotten what it was ) and I got frustrated and almost deleted the whole post without submitting.

But cancelling the post about cancelling posts was just too ridiculous to do. So I deleted the recalcitrant sentance and submitted the less than perfect expression of my thought on the matter. That's probably the main reason I self censor. I become annoyed with how what I'm trying to say sounds in my head and end up deleting it rather than post something that I'm not quite happy with.

And the Lyme disease thing? I just finally realized that I was becoming the old woman who could only talk about the state of her health and that I was boring myself nowadays. I don't want to be that person. So, I shut up about it. Mostly.

You found borrelia in someone??? Borrelia burdorferi is the organism that causes Lyme disease. (((I know there are other varieties around the globe that also cause borreliosis.....)))

OK, here's an example: the stuff in triple parentheses. A thought I don't quite know how to finish and which looks stupid at second glance. And if I delete that, then I ought to delete the sentance before it. And maybe the one before that.

Before I know it, the whole thought is deleted, just because I lost track of where I was going with that. And once I self censor that much, there's a higher probability that I'll get angry at my whole post and say "BAH! It's all stupid anyway!" and then delete the whole thing.

Excessive perfectionism can lead to post deletion--- but in my case it's before the post is seen. Afterwards, I usually let it stand. Except for some stuff in "Thinking of England" on B77. I just had to clean up in there when my mom became a member of B77.

[Erunáme]

Heck, I censored myself to the point of not visiting here anymore.. not fitting in, not contributing much of worth or it being positive, not actually having anything to contribute that's not redundant.

Seems the censoring thing is a bit of an illness here. And oh the irony of wanting to hit the back button on this one too.

[anthriel]

Gosh, Eru, I can't imagine that telling you how good it is to see you post on this board today would seem anything BUT ironic, given this thread.

And yet I will. Good to see you, Eru.

[Dave_LF]

There's a delete button?

Edit: Yup; I see it hiding there. Now; should I delete this post?