Heathens

Post by **Ethel** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:28 pm

Here's the link: http://piratesdaughter.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=746

Let's not argue about that any more, at least, okay?

The truth is, the post is sort of addressed to people here. But I didn't want to post it here, because I was afraid it would give offense. Read it or don't; respond or don't. It is what it is. Among other things, it's an apology, as I feel I have offended people here.

You're all really nice. If you think I resent your beliefs, you are wrong. I am happy for whatever comfort anyone finds against the abyss.

But I have a history with religion, and it's not a pleasant one. That's all I was trying to share. Does that mean I think you should believe differently than you do? No. Never.

Post by **Whistler** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:50 pm

Ethel, it was not necessary to simply post a link. The post itself might have been freely copied and pasted here. It is pertinent to the discussion. It is never inappropriate simply to relate information, and to discuss how one responds to it.

Post by **Ethel** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:28 pm

Whistler wrote:Ethel, it was not necessary to simply post a link. The post itself might have been freely copied and pasted here. It is pertinent to the discussion. It is never inappropriate simply to relate information, and to discuss how one responds to it.

Well, I had gotten a little touchy. I know I have offended people here. I don't mean to! I'm just really passionate about the Hell thing.

So what I wrote over there, I just tried to be factual. I'm fine with the link being here, but I couldn't have posted it here. Not because you would prevent me, but because... it might have offended. Or not. I just don't know!

Your PM to me, Whistler, told me that you have interpreted various things I wrote here as hating Christians. I don't! I swear it. I just hate Hell.

Post by **axordil** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:40 pm

Even the need to be loved pales in comparison to the need to be understood, I think. Not approved of, just understood. Understanding is rarer than either love or approval.

What is it about Saturday mornings and aphorisms?

But anyway, I can't help but admire people trying to understand the pieces of each other's lives least graspable. It's not easy, and it's not always pretty, and it can be hard to stay civil. And it helps if people assume as little as humanly possible.

Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:40 pm

Let me just say that interpretting another's post is one way to really send a discussion into a tizzy. If something isn't explicitly stated, you can be quite wrong in your interpretation. If you think you reading something underhanded it's best to ask and clarify before taking the extra step and getting offended, or mad, or whatever emotion swells up.

Just a friendly reminder. Clarify before you assume.

All yous are generic in this post.

Post by **JewelSong** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:44 pm

You know, anyone can call him/herself a Christian. Anyone can go to church and read the Bible and spout scripture and say "I love Jesus" and...well, anything.

But what you say matters less than what you do. When you do kind things, when you say kind words, when you feed the hungry and and clothe the naked, when you visit the sick and imprisoned, when you show love to your fellows - you are doing Jesus' work. Whether you label it as such or not.

And, conversely, when you show hate and contempt and ridicule and do violence...well, even if you do it in Jesus' name, you ain't pleasing Jesus one bit.

Remember those bumper stickers that said "Honk if you love Jesus?" I saw one once (at a Quaker gathering!) that said, "If you love Jesus, seek justice and love mercy. Any fool can honk!"

As Whistler said once, so succinctly - "We are called to be witnesses, not salesmen."

I do not believe people who preach hellfire and brimstone and eternal damnation are doing Jesus' work. I do not believe anyone has the right to judge someone else's faith.

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' (Matthew 25: 34- 40)

Post by **Erunáme** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:04 pm

Post by **Ethel** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:06 pm

JewelSong wrote:But what you say matters less than what you do. When you do kind things, when you say kind words, when you feed the hungry and and clothe the naked, when you visit the sick and imprisoned, when you show love to your fellows - you are doing Jesus' work. Whether you label it as such or not.

Yes, Jewel. I believe this with all my heart. I really do love and honor Jesus of Nazareth. My issues are, entirely, with other aspects of religion. "Even as you have done this to the least of my brethren, you have done it unto me." I love that.

Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:12 pm

TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:Let me just say that interpretting another's post is one way to really send a discussion into a tizzy. If something isn't explicitly stated, you can be quite wrong in your interpretation. If you think you reading something underhanded it's best to ask and clarify before taking the extra step and getting offended, or mad, or whatever emotion swells up.

Just a friendly reminder. Clarify before you assume.

All yous are generic in this post.

TED, while I agree with this, there is another side of the coin. Words are incredibly powerful things. It is very easy to say "oh, but that is not what I really meant to say" but once something has been put out there, it is very difficult to undo what has been expressed. That is why I really strongly urge people to consider very carefully what they say before they post it, with as much of an eye as possible on how someone else might interpret the words. Oftentimes, there might be another way of expressing your thoughts which will more clearly communicate them and avoid causing offense when none was intended.

I know that it's not always possible to predict how other people will react. But making the effort almost always helps.

Post by **JewelSong** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:16 pm

Ethel wrote:I really do love and honor Jesus of Nazareth.

There you go, then. You have everything you need. The rest of it is so much man-made confusion and complexity and well...just us humans being our usual selves and trying to make everything so damn complicated. Trying to understand that which cannot be understood.

Love God. Love each other. And...by loving each other, we love God.

Post by **Holbytla** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:20 pm

Well I will speak only for myself.
When I read posts I try and remove myself from the picture even if it is directed at me.
I try to take into account who is posting, and under what circumstances.
I try to realize what I am making of the post/situation.
I have failed as many times as not, but I do try and not take everything literally, like it is all about me, or trying to determine intentions without asking.
You have to choose your written words carefully, but you have to read words carefully as well.

Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:22 pm

Holbytla wrote:You have to choose your written words carefully, but you have to read words carefully as well.

You are wise, Master Holbytla.

Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:42 pm

V wrote:I know that it's not always possible to predict how other people will react. But making the effort almost always helps.

I agree here, but I also agree with Holby that you should do your best to read as carefully as you may post.

I take a pretty hardline approach to people reading into my posts. I generally choose my words carefully to say exactly what I mean, but the burden is not on me to keep you (generic) from reading a new meaning into my post because I'm not you. As long as I don't say something like "it seems to me that all christians are hypocrits" (for example), then I'm usually in the clear with causing offense.

Post by **Pearly Di** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:17 pm

Ethel wrote:Your PM to me, Whistler, told me that you have interpreted various things I wrote here as hating Christians. I don't! I swear it. I just hate Hell.

Lord love you, Ethel hon, so do I.

((((((((((((((Ethel)))))))))))))))))))))))

And here's a

for the posters in this thread.