Tolkien's Mythology and Your Own Spirituality

[merrybesq]

I have always felt so moved by the spiritual power of Tolkien's mythology, and have found that images and archetypes from LOTR especially have made their way into my own thinking/feeling about spirituality. In a way, the mythology captures so much of the essential notions central to so many faiths...without the often ugly historical baggage that comes with some of them.

I'm wondering: do others keep the Tolkien mythology very separate from their spirituality --as in, "it's just a story"-- or do they feel moved by its power, too? Do they find it becoming part of the tapestry of their own faith?

[Holbytla]

A little bit of both. There are certainly themes in Tolkien's works that are realistic and true also of this world. Yet there are instances where Tolkien is guessing or professing in his works based on his true life experiences.

I think he is at times trying to quantify things which are not quantifiable or even understandable to us.

[merrybesq]

There are just some elements of Tolkien's mythology that are so beautiful... I love the metaphor of "singing" the world into existence.

I am also continually struck by the themes of loss, sacrifice, and new beginnings born of both that permeate the stories through and through.

[Primula Baggins]

This is a great idea for a thread, merrybesq, and I would have posted sooner, but my online time is limited at the moment!

I'm Christian as Tolkien was, though not Catholic. But I value the lack of explicit connection between LotR and Christianity. What is there instead—as you say, merrybesq, the themes of loss, sacrifice, and new beginnings—illuminates some of the central ideas and beliefs of my faith. But that's not all they can illuminate.

Fumbling for words here. Much of what I love and value in Tolkien's work, I also love and value in my faith. But in Tolkien it is there for everyone to find, with "no strings attached."

[merrybesq]

Yes, Primula, that's exactly it! That's what I meant about it coming without the baggage. It's there to access, for anyone.

I have a friend who is Catholic, and who loved LOTR with a passion from a young age. She used to get in trouble for writing "WWFD" instead of "WWJD" on her notebooks in parochial school. Well, I understand that! I've asked "What would Frodo do?" a few times in my life, too, corny as that may sound.

I have trouble expressing the depths of my feelings about it - it's almost a tidal, emotional force - not easy to get intellectual about.

Those themes of bittersweet loss especially move me, those endings that are nevertheless part of some larger cycle, the giving way of one age to another. Whether it's the Elves leaving Middle Earth, the thought of Lothlórien fading with the destruction of Galadriel's ring, or anything whatsoever to do with the Grey Havens, I can't help but be moved.

[Primula Baggins]

Frodo walking to Mordor helped me walk through some nasty places, and out the other side. I know others who have said the same. There are more dramatic and glorious heroes even within LotR, but when it comes right down to it, in most of the troubles of an ordinary life, the kind of strength one wishes for is Frodo's, not, say, Éowyn's.

Now I have to go back to work. . . .

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Wow, merryb, I have been thinking an awful lot about this subject recently, so I am really glad that you started this thread. Expect a long post from me at some point in the next few days (I just got back from a trip and right now I am pretty exhausted).

[merrybesq]

Voronwë, I'll look forward to your post!

Primula, yes, you're right. It's the long, hard road --not the glorious battle -- that Frodo helps one endure.

[Athrabeth]

merrybesq!

This is indeed a great idea for a thread!

And I too will return with some thoughts.......once they are a little more linear.

[solicitr]

I find Tolkien's mythos to be a way of viewing the RW (in its religious dimension) sideways, so to speak: the process T called 'recovery' in On Fairy-stories: one recovers a clear view by seeing from an orthogonal perspective. If one accepts, as Tolkien I'm sure intended, that Eru is God, Yahweh, then his exploration of what He could have done in this imagined world sheds light on what He has done in this one. A macromicrocosm.

[Primula Baggins]

Great word, soli.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

And a great post, as well.

[Pearly Di]

Hey, merryb!

Great thread.

I'm Christian as Tolkien was, though not Catholic. But I value the lack of explicit connection between LotR and Christianity. What is there instead—as you say, merrybesq, the themes of loss, sacrifice, and new beginnings—illuminates some of the central ideas and beliefs of my faith. But that's not all they can illuminate.

Fumbling for words here. Much of what I love and value in Tolkien's work, I also love and value in my faith. But in Tolkien it is there for everyone to find, with "no strings attached."

Um, what Prim said. I'm Christian but not Catholic. I find Middle-earth mythology incredibly spiritual. I also find Tolkien wonderfully unpreachy about it ... unlike his old mate CS Lewis, whose books I also love, but who can sometimes be a little too didactic (not in all his books though).

I have trouble expressing the depths of my feelings about it - it's almost a tidal, emotional force - not easy to get intellectual about.

Just how I feel too. I don't get mega-intellectual about Tolkien because I'm not a mega-intellectual person (as an old flame once told me. He did mean it as a compliment. ) A 'tidal, emotional force' sums up very well how I feel about Tolkien's world.

Those themes of bittersweet loss especially move me, those endings that are nevertheless part of some larger cycle, the giving way of one age to another. Whether it's the Elves leaving Middle Earth, the thought of Lothlórien fading with the destruction of Galadriel's ring, or anything whatsoever to do with the Grey Havens, I can't help but be moved.

I find these great cycles of loss, and decline and fall, in the mythos, incredibly moving. They touch me on a very deep level. No writer, to my mind, portrays 'paradise lost' better than Tolkien.

Frodo walking to Mordor helped me walk through some nasty places, and out the other side. I know others who have said the same. There are more dramatic and glorious heroes even within LotR, but when it comes right down to it, in most of the troubles of an ordinary life, the kind of strength one wishes for is Frodo's, not, say, Éowyn's.

Frodo to me is the classic pilgrim. Soldiering on and doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do, not because he will get anything out of it. Because he doesn't. He loses everything. Although he does seem to receive a spiritual reward (IMO) and is very highly honoured by the Elves. If not his own people.

But Éowyn is also a very inspirational character, too, Prim. I love her more and more, I think. She's a great riposte to those people who find Tolkien anti-feminist.

Well, he was, bless him. But he also wrote some awesome female characters, and she and Galadriel are my favourites.

[merrybesq]

I love solicitr's word, too: "macromicrocosm." It kind of captures how that world resonates with us in this one.

Pearly Di, I was struck by your comment that Frodo did what he did because it was the right thing with no thought of reward. Because Tolkien didn't discuss so much as an afterlife --exactly-- Frodo wasn't even thinking about promised hereafter as he did what he did.

I also find it an incredible thing that Frodo was not just sacrificing body, but in a real sense, soul. Or...something. It was more than a physical sacrifice to let evil hang around your neck and consume just enough of you to keep it happy on the way to its destruction. *shudder* This is a gross oversimplification, but I hope you get what I mean.

[Frelga]

Um, what Prim said. I'm Christian but not Catholic. I find Middle-earth mythology incredibly spiritual. I also find Tolkien wonderfully unpreachy about it ... unlike his old mate CS Lewis, whose books I also love, but who can sometimes be a little too didactic (not in all his books though).

I'm not Christian, yet I find Tolkien's spirituality deeply moving, humane and consistent with my word-view. Unlike, I agree, Lewis. I think (in Wardrobe, particularly) Lewis paraphrased the story, but did not penetrate to the deep heart underneath. That is, to me, Tolkien's spiritual world stands on its own and does not rely on anything external to itself to move the reader.

Some day, when the board runs out of arguments and I run out of things to do, I will start a thread on why I thought Tolkien was Jewish.

Frodo to me is the classic pilgrim. Soldiering on and doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do, not because he will get anything out of it. Because he doesn't. He loses everything. Although he does seem to receive a spiritual reward (IMO) and is very highly honoured by the Elves. If not his own people.

Lately I began to question my conclusion that Frodo loses everything and is not rewarded by the author, the way all the other characters are. I wonder now if Frodo simply rose to such an elevated spiritual level that mere worldly rewards were insufficient and only the most exalted reward possible would do. In other words, I changed my understanding from "They sent Frodo West to lick his wounds the best he could" to "They took Frodo West since nothing less would satisfy him."

I need to think of a better way to phrase this, which should only take a few posts saying the same thing.

But Éowyn is also a very inspirational character, too, Prim. I love her more and more, I think. She's a great riposte to those people who find Tolkien anti-feminist.

Well, he was, bless him. But he also wrote some awesome female characters, and she and Galadriel are my favourites.

[Holbytla]

I know Christianity is different from other religions, yet there are many similar threads that run through all religions. Tolkien's spirituality, while Christian in root, is not far removed from many religions.
Many of the same basic themes are a commonality.

[axordil]

In terms of rewards: there is in LOTR and even more so the Sil an awareness that worldly rewards are ultimately all bittersweet and that none such is an unalloyed good. The ultimate example is of course the Gift of Men (and Hobbits). It's notable that the majority of the Fellowship eventually leave Middle-earth the really old-fashioned way, via ship to the West.

[Holbytla]

It's notable that the majority of the Fellowship eventually leave Middle-earth the really old-fashioned way, via ship to the West.

I still cry foul over Gimli getting to go along for the ride.

[Primula Baggins]

At least it's put as something that "some people say" rather than as definite historical fact. That seems natural to me, storytellers choosing to make a nice round happy ending, whether real events ended that way or not.

I prefer the bittersweet because it usually "feels true." In some frames of mind I wish Sam had not gotten to follow Frodo. Not because I want him to suffer, but because that's more like life.

[merrybesq]

In some frames of mind I wish Sam had not gotten to follow Frodo. Not because I want him to suffer, but because that's more like life.

Me, too, Prim! I think it's because Frodo tried to give him the gift of a life, a love, children, grandchildren... It seems ungrateful, somehow, for him to turn away from that in the end. (Not to mention a bit unlikely.)