Heaven?
Heaven?
Christians Wrong about Heaven, says Bishop
It looks like we all go to, for lack of a better term, the Halls of Mandos for a while. Then we come back and remake this world.
Even though I'm not a believer, I found this very interesting as it flies in the face of everything that's in our culture. It makes me want to go back in time to when I was a little kid and still went to Sunday school because I honestly don't remember our pastor or Sunday school teachers going on about heaven vs. hell and I know for a fact that the church we went to didn't touch Revelation with a 10 ft. pole. But I'm pretty sure they taught the standard doctrine: after you die, you go to some other place, away from this world. And apparently that's wrong.
What do you guys think?
It looks like we all go to, for lack of a better term, the Halls of Mandos for a while. Then we come back and remake this world.
Even though I'm not a believer, I found this very interesting as it flies in the face of everything that's in our culture. It makes me want to go back in time to when I was a little kid and still went to Sunday school because I honestly don't remember our pastor or Sunday school teachers going on about heaven vs. hell and I know for a fact that the church we went to didn't touch Revelation with a 10 ft. pole. But I'm pretty sure they taught the standard doctrine: after you die, you go to some other place, away from this world. And apparently that's wrong.
What do you guys think?
- axordil
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What you mean we, white eyes?It looks like we all go to, for lack of a better term, the Halls of Mandos for a while. Then we come back and remake this world.
Seriously, though, most of what the guy describes aligns with what I was taught in my evangelical upbringing. Of course, that was back before the Left Behind crew got into the discussion.
And a lot of it is obviously open to interpretation.
- Voronwë the Faithful
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I will never understand why people of any faith feel the need to speak authoritatively about something that no one alive on earth has experienced, can experience (while still present on this earth), or can definitively know. Very few things about religion anger me so much as this. I can't exactly explain WHY it makes me angry other than to say that it feels like the ultimate in both presumption and futility to me. I really think that people create heaven in their own image - i.e. as they wish it to be - and then try to attribute it to other human books or people (who have done the same thing.)
I won't just survive
Oh, you will see me thrive
Can't write my story
I'm beyond the archetype
I won't just conform
No matter how you shake my core
'Cause my roots, they run deep, oh
When, when the fire's at my feet again
And the vultures all start circling
They're whispering, "You're out of time,"
But still I rise
This is no mistake, no accident
When you think the final nail is in, think again
Don't be surprised, I will still rise
Oh, you will see me thrive
Can't write my story
I'm beyond the archetype
I won't just conform
No matter how you shake my core
'Cause my roots, they run deep, oh
When, when the fire's at my feet again
And the vultures all start circling
They're whispering, "You're out of time,"
But still I rise
This is no mistake, no accident
When you think the final nail is in, think again
Don't be surprised, I will still rise
- WampusCat
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I'm with nel on this. Speculation is not made more truthful by the certainty with which it is argued.
I do believe that the dead are with God, so anything I believe about the nature of our existence after death is based purely on what I see as the loving nature of God. That pins down very few details, which is fine with me.
I do believe that the dead are with God, so anything I believe about the nature of our existence after death is based purely on what I see as the loving nature of God. That pins down very few details, which is fine with me.
Take my hand, my friend. We are here to walk one another home.
Avatar from Fractal_OpenArtGroup
Avatar from Fractal_OpenArtGroup
nerdanel, would such speculation be more acceptable if the person claimed to have a mystical experience of what the afterlife was like?
I know there are lots of accounts of near-death experiences out there, where people claim to have died and then come back to tell the tale. I'm not sure what I think of that - the fact that many of them are so similar suggests something about the experience of being near death. But the fact that they all lived means they didn't really die, so, I'm not sure what it says about the afterlife.
And then there are the kids at Fatima, who saw visions of heaven and hell. But again, what they reported seeing - was it real or metaphorical, and was the vision itself legit or a hoax?
To me, heaven is being 'with God.' As to what that means or what it's like...I can't say much about it. I just know it's very, very good.
I know there are lots of accounts of near-death experiences out there, where people claim to have died and then come back to tell the tale. I'm not sure what I think of that - the fact that many of them are so similar suggests something about the experience of being near death. But the fact that they all lived means they didn't really die, so, I'm not sure what it says about the afterlife.
And then there are the kids at Fatima, who saw visions of heaven and hell. But again, what they reported seeing - was it real or metaphorical, and was the vision itself legit or a hoax?
To me, heaven is being 'with God.' As to what that means or what it's like...I can't say much about it. I just know it's very, very good.
Like nerdanel, this is one of the issues that really gets me riled. No one has experienced death. Therefore no one has the authority to say "it's like this or that", only to hypothesize, e.g. "I believe it might be this or that".
Personally, the answer is, once again, I don't know. If there is something later, I'll see what it's like. If there isn't, it doesn't matter anyway.
Personally, the answer is, once again, I don't know. If there is something later, I'll see what it's like. If there isn't, it doesn't matter anyway.
Why is the duck billed platypus?
- Primula Baggins
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I also believe that the dead are with God. But in a world loaded down with poverty, war, and injustice, it seems to me that we're called to focus on what's in front of us, not theories and possibilities about the afterlife. That's a question that all of us will eventually find the answer to, and fretting about it beforehand is pointless. What makes a difference is what we do now.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
I didn't take the article as this man stating unknowable things with certainty. All he was stating with certainty is that that is what the Bible says about life after this stage of earthly existence. I don't think there is anything wrong with stating with certainty what you perceive a text to be saying. His reading seems to me to be accurate.
Whether one believes the Bible to be true is another matter entirely.
Whether one believes the Bible to be true is another matter entirely.
Avatar photo by Richard Lykes, used with permission.