The Ideal Life

[vison]

I'm not sure if this is the right forum, but I'll put it here anyway.

What is your "ideal life"? I mean, if you could choose everything about your life, what would it be like? What would YOU be like? How would it differ from the life you have now? I don't mean only spiritually, but every aspect.

[Lurker]

I'm a Roman Catholic and my parents had me read the lives of the Saints when I was a kid. I always admired the life of St. Francis of Assisi. For those who do not know him, he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, had a good life (drinking, parties, women), a business that he would inherit someday but he threw it all the to live the simple life and serve as an example to his fellowman. It is almost similar to Mother Teresa's life, living amongst the poor.

Before I became a mercenary to those who can afford me I've always wanted to become a priest (or a Pope , always admired Pope JPII when I was a kid. To my suprise, my parents were very supportive to the idea. I was an acolyte at the local parish since I was 10. The priest gave me a "mass book" for my birthday (the thick red book they carry to the altar during mass), which I use to practice on in front of my friends. I would ask them to come over to my place and I would conduct a "mass" in the garage complete with homily and host (bread). I wanted to work as a missionary in the third world. In fact, I joined a missionary mission during the summer (university years) in Asia wherein I actually lived with a poor family (farmers) and we were instructed we worked beside them in the field, we don't spend money on buying food for them, whatever they eat, we eat, wake up before dawn, really difficult for somebody like me who is used to the good life. Have you ever eaten rice with water and salt only, similar to congee in chinese restuarants, slept on the ground on a straw mat. They were offering me their only bed but I refused, don't want special treatment. It was a remote village and I couldn't believe I actually risked my life to be there, since the place is where insurgents (rebels) hide and sometimes there are shoot outs with the military. I was actually caught in a crossfire once (a military in pursuit of a rebel and I was walking down a hill and they were shooting at each other, the military stopped shooting when he saw me), never told my parents or friends about it, only my wife and father in law knows about it, but I wasn't scared, stupid me continued walking. I was with the Canadian Military Air Cadets since I was a kid until I was 19, so I guess that's why I shrugged it off, guns don't scare me. Anyways, I came back to Canada with a new "attitude" I became an idealist, that I can make the world a better place (in my own little way) and suddenly realized that I won't be doing much good if I became a priest, just preaching the gospel and living amongst the poor. I needed to get a job in which my "spare change", time, and talents can help the poor in the society. In fact, I often tell my friends (as a joke), if only they had indoor plumbing in the remote areas I wouldn't mind living amongst the poor, the only problem is I'm afraid I would fall in the huge hole when I'm doing my "bathroom" duties. It's a very huge hole in the ground.

I have no regrets not becoming a priest or a missionary, since I realized that charity always begins at home. Yes, there are poor people in third world countries but who is going to take care of those who are "left behind" here, who's going to feed the homeless, visit/feed the elderly, give advice to those who are oppressed, etc... I'm needed here as much as over there and I'm glad my wife is very supportive of my endeavors.

[Teremia]

Lurker -- what an incredible story!

vison -- a good question for the first day of a new year. I think I would be pretty happy with the following life:

a walk in the morning
followed by work on the current novel
(one or two thousand words)
pick kids up from school
play music


That would be the basic outline. I would also like to be of service, as Lurker reminds us we should be, and for me that would probably take the form of spending more time on the projects of my dearly-loved local Quaker Meeting.

(Alas that we cannot live these lives we long for!)

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I have absolutely no idea what an ideal life would be like.

[vison]

(Alas that we cannot live these lives we long for!)

That's just it, isn't it? Why can't we? Why do we live other lives?

I thought it would be a good post for the first day of a New Year.

I'm going to begin my better life (!) right now by going for a walk with my grandson Tay. It's not going to be a very long walk, as I am not yet very strong, but we must begin somewhere.

I'm not talking about "New Year's resolutions". I don't mean "quit smoking" or "lose 20 pounds" although those are worthwhile plans.

I don't lead the life I want to lead, either, and I have come to realize that longing for it isn't going to get me there. I have to take steps.

I will write a long post about this later. (Is that a promise, or a threat?)

I hope this sparks some discussion and thought.

[Primula Baggins]

I definitely want to post in this thread. I've been thinking a lot about precisely this question—and the one you just asked, vison: why don't we lead these ideal lives? If I can't be sure how many years I'll end up getting, shouldn't I now be living the better life I want to live? And doesn't that apply equally to all of us anyway, life being uncertain for everyone?

[Alatar]

Good question, and one I'm pondering myself.

[MaidenOfTheShieldarm]

Lurker, wow! You've led a most interesting life. I admire your ultimate goals, and wish that I were as good.

As for me, my ideal life is much more selfish. My ideal life is doing things: having adventures, really LIVING.

I want to sail around the world, learn how to weild a broadsword, become an archaeologist and discover a lost city. I want to write a great book, learn seven languages and speak as many as possible fluently, go to the theatre every week, star in a Broadway show, travel around the world, tend a lighthouse, work on a tall ship. I want to experience things and see what the world has to offer.

I want to defy gravity.

And at the end, come home to a quiet house with lots of bookshelves and a fireplace, to bury myself in a good book while sitting by the fire with a cup of tea.

I want to be a good and caring person.

(And while we're being ideal, I'd like to be able to sing like Idina Menzel and have the Leakey's luck in finding important sites. )

But I am only 18 and a bit naive. Someday I expect I shall want only a good quite life with people I love and plenty of books and good music.

[truehobbit]

I love the question, but I don't know the answer!

Lurker, wow, that's impressive!

Hmmh, I'm not sure about the ideal life, because with whatever life you lead, there'll be consequences you can't foresee. I'm often thinking that maybe just making the best of the life you are given is as "ideal" as it can safely get.

Something like St. Francis is pretty much ideal, but you can only leave established society as long as there is an established society - if everybody was a St. Francis, who would provide the things one needs to survive? (I'm aware that this shows some lack of faith, though )

I think that maybe what one could try is a "good" even if not "ideal" life. Try to be good for the people around you, try not to harm the world around you anymore than is unavoidable, try not to support exploitative economics, be aware that a lot of material possessions aren't useful, all these sorts of things. Nothing of these can be done 100%, but doing as much as you can without hurting yourself is certainly "good", I think.

And maybe "good" is better than "ideal" anyway. Can anything that is done in extremes still be good? I think it might be wiser for humans to leave the superlatives to God - and maybe some chosen ones that do seem to appear now and then and impress us with exreme goodness. Something "ideal" is by definition extreme, so, doesn't striving for this already mean having strayed from what is right?


Edited to add: all that said, I think I'd agree with Mossy! Being able to make all sorts of experiences and learn the widest variety of things, being a good person all the while, and then settling to a safe, warm house with a loved one and kids - yep, sounds like what my life plan used to be exactly!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Thank you, Hobby.

[Lurker]

Thanks! I'm not very good with compliments though.
I don't usually talk about this but I don't know what came over me today, I guess like most of you said it's the new year and the question was very approriate.

That's just it, isn't it? Why can't we? Why do we live other lives?

There is no ideal way of life, IMHO. Life is what you make it.

Plus an ideal life is easier said than done, I might have said it as a joke that if there was indoor plumbing in these remote areas I wouldn't mind living there. Almost three months is not long enough to say, hey, this is my ideal life, live amongst the poor so as not to feel guilty that I can have almost all the luxury in the world and they can't. Ask me after a year and I might change my mind or not, who knows.

Even if you try to live your ideal life, there would be obstacles ahead and what you claim to be your ideal life could change drastically. Say you want to volunteer for Meals On Wheels but your job gets in the way or your family has to come first. Do you really want to sacrifice your job or spend less time with your family because you have to help the poor? Most people would answer No.

Another thing is, you can't live your ideal like because of monetary reasons or you just don't have the talent or the education, you know, limitatons. We're not perfect, so let's face it, an ideal life is not going to happen unless what you have right now is what you envision as your "ideal life".

[Rowanberry]

For me, an ideal life simply means that things are in balance: work and leisure, family and friends, exercise and rest, routine and creativity... But, that kind of balance can never come from the outside, one must find it by and in oneself.

[Primula Baggins]

Exactly, Rowan. Though I've sometimes wished I didn't have to do editing work and could simply write, the fact is that I would probably run to seed fast without that regular productivity and the schedule it imposes. The trick is finding the balance, which is hard when you're self-employed. Turning down work is turning down money—and more money now is emotional insurance against the chance that there will be less later. Yet I so often end up trapped by work and sacrificing most other joys in life to get it done. I just don't want to do that any more. And yet we have three kids coming up on college.

[samaranth]

I sometimes think of all the different lives I could have had: if at any point I’d made different choices to the ones I did make, then my life would have a completely different shape. Not living here, not living with the person I do but perhaps with someone else, or perhaps not with anyone. With or without children. Different career, altogether different outlook. And any one of the possibilities could be ideal, in the sense of being interesting, exciting, challenging, and fulfilling.

But it would all come back to the question of balance, and the need to grab opportunities. And both of these things are sadly lacking from my life as it is, probably because it’s very easy to become lazy, and set in habit, and just keep doing things without asking questions. This is what I need to address, or else I will wake up one day and realise that time has flown too fast.

I would like a greater balance between the demands of work, my home life, and my own individual life (if that makes sense – the time that is mine, not that spent looking after other people). In my ideal life I’d have greater discipline over myself, and wouldn’t carry the stresses and worries from one aspect over to the other. I’d be able to simply enjoy those fleeting moments of joy and beauty which are everywhere.

I’d agree that part of the price of an ideal life would be giving back in some way, either through the choice of career or through volunteer work. It’s helping in whichever way you are most able.

[Frelga]

In my ideal life, I would spend far less time online. I would just have you all over for dinner every Friday. In my large, spotless home.

I would have more talent and more diligence, and I would love writing just as much as I do now but be better at it. I would enjoy my job as much as I do, but focus on it more and perhaps achieve more. I would have the same family, but be more present for them.

I would not let my pleasure interfere with my happiness.

And I would not spend so much time feeling displaced and futile.

[truehobbit]

Why are you feeling displaced and futile, Frelga? ( )

And how can pleasure interfere with happiness?

[Frelga]

To answer the second question TH, that was the deep revelation I had over vacation. For instance, having a big peace of chocolate cake is a pleasure. Gaining weight as a result makes me unhappy. Sneaking on the boards from work is a pleasure. Falling behind feels like a blow to my integrity and makes me unhappy. Reading is a pleasure. Cleaning house is not. But living in a messy house makes me unhappy. And so on.

To answer the first question, I've been opting for pleasure over happiness too much lately, and that makes me feel futile. As for displaced... I just got to wondering lately what it would feel like to be a part of majority for once. Anywhere, in anything.

And now I'm being whiny. In any case, the hug helped and I thank you.

[vison]

Ah, Frelga, you are where I am! I understand you.

"Pleasure is not happiness". No, indeed. Excellent insight.

Will be back.

[Jnyusa]

I just got to wondering lately what it would feel like to be a part of majority for once. Anywhere, in anything.

I have often wondered this myself, Frelga.

I feel a sort of crossover between the question you asked in the Channukah thread and the question here. My first inclination was to say, with Hobby, in the Channukah thread, that fighting for an individual belief is not worthwhile ... I have never experienced this to be worthwhile except in the very short run, experiencing the 'rush' of standing up for a principle. But if there is no community, no fellowship that holds the principle along with you, it feels eventually like an exercise in futility. And it may not even be right.

But within every community to which I have belonged, I have found myself sooner or later standing against the majority on issues that seemed to me not at all trivial ... just to give a clue without a shaggy dog story: concealing a child molester whose deeds, if known, would shame the community ... and I have found myself standing alone on a stormy hill and eventually self-ostracized because the behavior of 'the group' was so repugnant to me.

At one level I long to know what that would feel like, being part of the group no matter what, being vindicated by the group, being ... absorbed by the group ... and yet I know that I could not live with myself if I kept silent against some things.

But I have also seen the backhand of God, so to speak, and I know that justice is done eventually (in all that I have seen), though not necessarily within a time frame that satisfies our thirst for vengeance ... and it is not necessary for me to stand alone always ... but then again ... perhaps my standing alone is one of the pieces in the puzzle that allows justice eventually to be done ... I just don't know. I can only do what seems right at the moment. And it has led to a great deal of lonliness. And a great deal of wondering what is the point of it all.

I think ... one of the things I would long for in an ideal life is knowing - beoing given the gift of knowing - that my actions have not been fruitless.

Jn

[nerdanel]

vison, thank you for asking this question, which provided me much food for thought.

To realize an ideal life calls for changes in two areas - self and other. For me, and probably for many people, a truly ideal life would involve living in a very different world - one with fewer prejudices and stereotypes and limitations on self-determination.

Your question made me realize just how happy I am with my life, though, because there's only one thing I would change about myself.

I have an extremely competitive personality; if I was any more so, it would be a fault rather than a positive (and right now it could probably be debated). I'm not satisfied with myself unless I'm at "the top" however I choose to measure that - whether that means at the top academically, or in top physical shape, or making prime use of my day to learn and think and grow as a person, or anything else. Sometimes "the top" means "at the top of my game" - just competing against myself (e.g. "How can I be a better older sister than I was last year?"), and sometimes it means competing against others ("How do I nail the other people in this debate competition?") In any case, the competitive process - in most facets of life - is what causes me to feel most fulfilled, and it's what gives me the incentive to develop, rather than to remain static.

About two years ago, I started to lose sight of that, and instead tried to see what would be "good enough." At first, it amused me...to see how little work I could put in, and still get "good enough" results, however I defined that. I know exactly why I slipped into this mindset (and it's off-topic for this thread), but regardless, it's nonsense. "Good enough" is nowhere close to the "best that I can do" - I know that darn well, and there's a nagging, unfulfilled feeling that "good enough" produces. It's made me restless and unhappy. And, where you really start getting into trouble is where you've done "good enough" for long enough that you start thinking that "good enough" is the best you can do.

Essentially, making this one change - from "good enough" back to "fighting to be the best" - doesn't create the ideal life, exactly. However, the ideal life is not a static entity. Rather, it is a process on which one embarks.

For me, conceptualizing the process in superlative terms - to be the best - is what makes sense. "The best" doesn't just mean "the best student" or "the best professional." So long as it also means working to be "the best person (I can be)," then I figure that it's an ok goal.

I'd better get out of this thread before I sound any more hopelessly naive and/or rambly.

ETA Frelga...
As for displaced... I just got to wondering lately what it would feel like to be a part of majority for once. Anywhere, in anything.

Me too...