Theology: Superman and Dr Who

[Pearly Di]

Wampus,

Of the two characters, I find the Doctor vastly more interesting.

[truehobbit]

Wampus, thanks - that made sense!

Prim - - right back at you.
I can't believe you find something of it scary, though. What bothered me was just that it was too daft to be a thriller and too serious to be funny. Because of the daftness of the overall setting, I kept waiting for the jokes, but none came...

Alatar, I can't believe you still remember which episode it was!

[axordil]

There is also a mythic edge to Supes, and an undercurrent (best explained in Kill Bill Part Two) of a negative aspect to his view of humanity.

I would also say that Supes is more interesting as a concept than in execution as a character, while the Doctor is somewhat the opposite: all execution and a very fuzzy concept.

[Primula Baggins]

Neat distinction, Ax.

hobby, as I said, the episodes of Doctor Who vary wildly from each other. You really can't judge them all based on a single episode. The creepiest television I've ever seen in my life has been Doctor Who (some of the Dalek episodes late in the original run, particularly). But other episodes are satires, and others are comedic, and others are tragedies, and others are allegories, and others are history lessons, and. . . . And most of them are very well done.

[Pearly Di]

Hobby, Doctor Who is a very ingrained part of British culture, in exactly the same way that Superman is part of US culture. It is a very, VERY, British thing. Thousands of British children have grown up with the tradition of 'hiding behind the sofa' when a Doctor Who ep is on.

Back in the 1960s and 70s the special effects were laughable and the stories often clever and gripping (and sometimes daft). Nowadays the special effects are decent and the stories have got better, with the odd relapse (every season will have something somebody doesn't like).

That is all part and parcel of Doctor Who. The setting, the in-jokes, the constant references to other aspects of British culture, it's what we all expect from Doctor Who. It's deeply quirky, and we like it that way.

I can imagine that Doctor Who would seem fairly impenetrable to anyone who hadn't grown up with it, although it does seem to have an American fanbase too.

And goodness me, yes, we all remember our favourite Doctor Who episodes. I can name two from the 1970s, two of the greatest eps of all time: 'Genesis of the Daleks' and 'The Pyramids of Mars'.

[Crucifer]

See, the great thing about Dr. Who is that each episode is written by someone different, so there is no repetition of anything, because they all have a different approach. This works great because a proper time Lord would know that he would have to act differently depending on the time he is in.

I've only seen four episedos: Sattelite 5, The one where Rose goes back in time and saves her father from dying, creating a paradox, and the Empty child (two part) The empty child had a very crap ending.

Alatar, on which channel do you view this telivisionary delight?

[Alatar]

I LOVED LOVED LOVED the Empty Child. And I thought the ending as perfect.

I should first point out that prior to Ecclestone's Who, I had only seen a handful of the older Who, and certainly did not grow up with it. I love it now simply cause its great.

Crucifer, I watch on BBC, but I have it Sky+'d so I'm a bit behind. No spoilers please!

[Crucifer]

Ah. See, it was on TV3 for a while, but then one week it wasn't so I thought the time changed. I only have the four standard.

But we're getting sky!

[Primula Baggins]

I watched it during the early 1980s on PBS. I'm sure I missed most of the British in-jokes, but that's really only a small part of it.

Di, PYRAMIDS OF MARS is so perfect that it's the only old-show episode I ponied up to get on DVD. A brilliant melding of period and characters and scariness, with the great Tom Baker Doctor and the great Sarah Jane.

GENESIS OF THE DALEKS would be a close second.

[Pearly Di]

Prim, such is the greatness of Pyramids of Mars that the story and those scary mummies have stayed with me for about 30 years, even though I've only ever watched the whole thing again once. Six hours solid, in the pre-DVD era.

There are moments in Season Three that touch that greatness and, I think, surpass it.

[WampusCat]

I LOVED LOVED LOVED the Empty Child. And I thought the ending as perfect.

I should first point out that prior to Ecclestone's Who, I had only seen a handful of the older Who, and certainly did not grow up with it. I love it now simply cause its great.

I agree on every point.

I still get the creeps just thinking about "The Empty Child." And I found the ending quite satisfying.

My only complaint now is that I preferred Ecclestone to the current Doctor.

[JewelSong]

I had never seen a single episode of Dr Who before I moved to the UK and I had only a vague idea of the show.

I was hooked from the very first time I watched it. I love the show, I love the premise, I love the current Doctor...I love the whole thing!

[Primula Baggins]

For a while after that episode my sons could scare my daughter just by saying, "Mummmmmeeeeeeeee. . . ."

[WampusCat]

[Aravar]

I think this is insightful, at least if you're dealing in a societal view of God rather than the various individual expressions of faith.

Superman: invincible, fast, solitary, muscled (he looks powerful), morally straight, hides his identity. He's the sort of God who lives in Metropolis and is always there to rescue those in peril, pulling them from danger but with no real vulnerabilities of his own, and expects everyone to follow the law to the letter because it is Right. He's the defender of Truth, Justice and the American Way. How could this possibly be more American?

Dr. Who: clever, intellectual, funny, solitary because he's the last of his kind but takes on select companions, willing to bend the rules to save a planet. He's compassionate but doesn't meddle in others' lives. He has great power but looks ordinary. He interferes at key points in human history, when the danger is greatest, but then disappears in his Tardis.

I'm less familiar with English culture, but I suspect that that description is closer to how the divine is perceived (in general) there. I'm sure Superman is closer to the American perception.

That's what I was driving at.

[axordil]

Superman is vulnerable (in most incarnations ) to bits of his own past...that is, Kryptonite. There's a bit of metaphor for you.

[JogOn]

I likes Doctor Who




(okay, crap post but it's the only thing that turns me intro a drooling fanboy these days.... and it made me post on HOF for the first time in ages, so hi everyone...)

[Jnyusa]

JogOn, Welcome!

Step out of your tardis and stay awhile.

[Primula Baggins]

JogOn, have you seen all of Season 3, or are you one of us unlucky Americans who are only now getting it?

[ToshoftheWuffingas]

Though I am better informed now, I do remember my initial astonishment that the original Dr Who had even been seen inside the USA let alone having admirers there. We used to forgive the poor effects because its inner spirit so appealed to us but I never thought it could travel.
I, ahem, do remember seeing the first episode.
I can think of no more exciting sound than the theme music for an as yet unseen episode.

ETA. The best version is still the original one from the BBC Radiophonics workshop.