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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:16 pm 
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Wrong within normal parameters
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I've been asked to write (but not deliver) a five-minute talk on science and spirituality [Edit: the title is actually supposed to be "The Spirituality of Science"]. I can do that just fine on my own, but I can probably do it better if I talk about it first to remind myself of my own thoughts on the subject. So I'm wondering if anyone would be up for sharing their ideas on:

-What is scientific?
-What is spiritual?
-What is spiritual about science?
-What is scientific about spirituality?
-Do you view the two as separate, non-overlapping avenues of inquiry and experience, or do they share turf?
-If the two do share turf and they disagree, who should win? How do you decide?

I will answer these things myself once I spend a little time thinking about it...


Last edited by Dave_LF on Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:56 pm 
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Aagragaah
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I wonder about the framing a bit. There's no conflict between spirituality and science. The conflict is between science and dogma.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:39 pm 
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Lán de Grás
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"Spiritual" is such a fuzzy term that I wouldn't even know how to start to answer.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:14 am 
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I'd say that science and spirituality use such completely different standards that asking what is scientific about spirituality and what is spiritual about science isn't a question that has a valid premise.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:35 am 
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Lali Beag Bídeach
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If you haven't read Francis Collins' book The Language of God, I'd highly recommend it. It's the book that solidified my turning away from YEC and made me realize that I could be a Christian and believe in evolution.

I will give this some thought if I can. It's a topic that fascinates me.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:59 am 
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Living in hope
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I would say it's not so much that science and spirituality use different standards as that they are different tools for examining the world.

I'll be back. Deadline tonight.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:13 pm 
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Upon further discussion, the topic is "The Spirituality of Science" rather than "Spirituality and (or vs.) Science." Which gives the thing a somewhat different flavor, though defining the terms and discussing their relationship with each other would still be in bounds.

A difficult topic to do justice in 5 minutes! :D

Here's a little teaser: science points outwards, spirituality points inward. Sure, science can tell us plenty about ourselves and the way our minds work, but always from the perspective of someone outside looking in. Our inner reactions to the information it provides; how it leads us to understand our place in the universe and our relation to it; what it *means* to us, is where something you might call "spirituality" can enter the picture.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:10 pm 
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Aagragaah
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That's not at all where I would take it. I don't think I can contribute, but I'm looking forward to seeing how you develop the theme.

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Terry Pratchett, Jingo


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:13 pm 
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Where would you take it? :)


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:22 pm 
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Aagragaah
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Well, for a start, I don't necessarily see spirituality as looking inward, or at least not exclusively. But maybe I am not catching what you meant?

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“Aargragaah. It mean lit’rally der time when you see dem little pebbles and you jus’ know dere’s gonna be a great big landslide on toppa you and it already too late to run. Dat moment, dat’s aagragaah.”

Terry Pratchett, Jingo


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:29 am 
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Living in hope
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Spirituality is often a communal thing and involves awareness of, and joining with, others more than a focus on self.

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“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:26 pm 
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Hobbit
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Science is the process of trying to understand the rules governing the reality that God set up.
Spirituality is the process of appreciating that reality and its author.

They aren't mutually exclusive at all.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:54 pm 
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These are good perspectives, and worth addressing, even if they're different from my own.

The communal aspect is especially interesting since (a) it's not something I would have come up with on my own (everything I've experienced that might be called spiritual or religious has been intensely and essentially personal), and (b) it has an obvious analog in science, which could be described as a group effort of searching for truth that is bigger than humans, and sharing it with each other.

(please forgive the poor sentence construction)


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