The Music of the LOTR Films/Rarities Archives: Late 2009

[TheTennisBallKid]

Doug Adams:

Hi everyone,

Only a few questions, so only a few answers!

>>>Doug, are those two sections of music going to be pieced together, or is the later going to be a short track following the Beacon track?????>>>

The track breaks are currently being discussed, as are track titles, so comments are a bit premature. The two sections were recorded separately, however, just fyi. Also remember, a track break does not necessarily indicate any specific length of silence between the compositions -- that’s adjustable. I can at least tell you that the two compositions will not be crossafaded. There will be a pause, or a break between the two… just as you’re used to hearing from the film.

>>>Here's a question for Doug, maybe you've answered it before. Will the chronology of the ROTK CR follow the original cut that Shore scored (i.e. Gandalf arriving at Minas Tirith during the retreat from Osgiliath), will it follow that of the theatrical/extended editions, or will it be sort of a combination of the two?>>>

That’s an excellent question… so here’s an awful answer! I don’t know. No one knows. The decision has not yet been made. Currently, both versions of this music are being restored / remixed. Howard will make the final call as to which will be used… or both… or neither. Well ok, there obviously won’t be a situation where neither is used. There, at least I was able to include a little concrete information.

There is some music that is unique to the version of the chronology that has Gandalf arrive during the battle outside Osgiliath… if this music does not make the CR, you can count on hearing it eventually, I’m quite certain.

I’m still working through the next draft of the notes right now. Specifically, the included music examples have been in the spotlight lately. Track breakdowns and titles for the second and third discs have also been on the table. Marching forwards…

Best,

-Doug

ttbk

[truehobbit]

Hi, all ye who know the LOTR score inside out!

I'm hijacking this thread for a question, because I think it's not something to start a new thread about (or rather, it's too embarrassing to do so ) - but if you'd rather I'd not post about this here, ttbk esp, just let me know, then I'll move this to a new thread.


Have you ever had this thing, that a few bars of music were on your mind and you couldn't place them? Driving you crazy, I tell you.

Well, I'm having this right now, and I thought I'd ask you people to help.

In a piece we're currently studying in my choir, there are a few bars that totally remind me of something in the LOTR score, but I can't say what!

So, could you please listen to them and let me know

- whether you think they are similar to something? (I might be quite wrong about this)
- and if so, what part?

Here's the link: http://www.thehalloffire.net/albums/album01/quando.mp3

It's about one minute of music, but the part I mean is actually just the first half (I couldn't bring myself to cut it in the middle of the harmonic progression ) - in fact, it's really just the chords on "morieTUR" and "doneTUR".

Any input would be much appreciated.

[Primula Baggins]

hobby, I've listened and I'm afraid I can't answer your question (though i think I know someone who probably can ).

But now I have to go listen to the whole Dvorák Stabat Mater. AGAIN. And it will make me cry, AGAIN.

Fortunately it fits what I've got to write next.

(What a finish that last movement is—when I first heard it at the Bach Festival I could barely breathe and was listening with my eyes wide so the tears wouldn't fall. And at the end Rilling just stood motionless in the silent hall, his baton still poised, the chorus and orchestra and audience all frozen until he released us. I will never forget that. It still gives me chills.)

[truehobbit]

Wow, Primmy!

I'd never heard of it before we started studying it, and I was pretty impressed with the strength of some bits even though it was just the choir and piano, and only bits and pieces here and there I'd heard so far.
I got the recording a week ago, and there were some moments where the pain was so palpable, it was hardly to be borne, I felt as if I had to cry out.

I made the connection to the LOTR score in those two or three chords the first time we rehearsed it, where it went a lot slower than in an actual recording of course. But I still imagine to hear a similarity.

But it's been a year or so that I've last listened to the LOTR score (although I always mean to take part in ttbk's listening thread ) - so I'm not sure if I'm imagining it, or, if not, where the moment is that has similar chords.


And if what you're writing fits that, I'm pre-ordering the second book right away, too!

[Primula Baggins]

Well, I aim a great deal higher with the music than I achieve with the writing, so don't go expecting too much!

But if you want powerfully expressed but entirely unsentimental grief, sustained by faith, this is the piece. He wrote it immediately after losing three young children to accident and illness in the space of a single year.

[TheTennisBallKid]

Wow, that's gorgeous. Now I want to hear the whole thing...I love choral music.


As for your question, hobby: there are lots of big choral moments in LOTR, but the first thing that came to mind when listening to those particular chords was the second half of Foundations of Stone (the first track on the TTT album). If that's not it...I can suggest more!


*browses music collection, looking for choral music....settles on various selections from Revenge of The Sith....*



ttbk

[Primula Baggins]

ttbk, you will not regret listening to Dvorák's Stabat Mater, I can promise you that. He knew a lot about the colors that can be achieved with a chorus and soloists, and he knew everything about emotional power.

Though Revenge of the Sith is not unworthy. That is some wonderful music.

[truehobbit]

ttbk, thanks!

Hmmh, that's not the one, though, I think.
(It's quite possible, though, that I'm imagining it. )

I asked the question on my lj, too, and the last part of the music (when the orchestra comes back) reminded a friend there of the lighting of the beacons.

Interesting that the first two ideas were from TTT.

[TheTennisBallKid]

Hi everyone,

Boy, you guys are getting so good at covering the questions on your own, I’ve got little to offer other than updates. But worry not, there’s plenty to detail in that department.

Second things first, however… let me once again thank everyone who sent or posted well wishes regarding my recovery. Save for an occasional bit of soreness, I’m pretty much back to fighting shape!

And onwards…

>>>And for Doug, just a thought. Did you acknowledge sometime back and somewhere here that there would be a slipcase to kepp all the CRs in? If yes, and assuming it will be released alongwith ROTK:CR, and since the rarities will probably be released sometime later with your book, please please don't forget to leave space for the rarities box (if it is a box ) or else it'll feel lonely up on the shelf

If such a case is in the works for the music recordings I wonder what the color will be and if its design will be a little more imaginative? Doug?>>>

The slipcase continues to dwell in the realm of distinct possibilities. Personally, I think it will happen. As for specific designs, however, nothing has been cooked up yet. This doesn’t constitute a lack of forward progress however, it’s just quite early on.

>>>See the question posted on this page: http://www.soundtrackinfo.com/ost.asp?soundtrack=5257>>>

Just FYI, we will finally tackle the Gandalf’s Farewell’s figure in the ROTK notes. Time to pay off the tease!

>>>In the MFTM LotR special issue, Howard Shore says he used all kinds of trumpets for the scores, C, Bb, F and Rotary Valve trumpets.
I've recently bought a book about orchestration, and it mentions that F trumpets are very rarely used nowadays (this book of course was released 80 years ago) because they are larger and have significantly less flexibility than modern trumpets, which aim for chromatic flexibility. But the book also mentions that it was a shame because those F trumpets have a strikingly brilliant and rousing character.

Now, my question is: are those the same trumpets Howard Shore used? If so, could you name us some specific cues where they can be heard?
Also, I know that he used Rotary Valve trumpets all throughout "The Destruction Of The Ring" and "The Destruction Of Mordor". He mentions they also have a very specific quality, they sound more ancient.>>>

F trumpets do indeed have a darker tone than C or Bb trumpets, and it’s that tone in specific that drew Shore to the sound. You can hear these trumpets in a good deal of the Gondor music. I’d have to double check, but I believe you’re hearing them in the Lighting of the Beacons sequence.

Thanks very much to Jaquandor for his detailed description of the instruments’ mechanics. It’s good to see you again, Jaq.

This one is ported over from email as I thought it may be of interest to all of you (though I don’t have much an answer to give, currently).

>>>Ok, Quick question, I read that "Houses of Healing" and "Arwen's Song" (performed by Sissel) would be on the CR of the ROTK. You stated that you would give more information later on the subject. On "Arwen's Song" is this supposed to be apart of the end credits of the soundtrack or will it be something mixed in with the movie portion of the soundtrack.>>>

Yes, the plan still calls for both Arwen’s Song and Sissel’s song to be included on this set. As for placement and / or editing, I’m afraid I still have no comment only because the decision hasn’t yet been made. There have been a couple of different edits offered up for perusal, and there are more to come. I have a pretty solid guess as to how this will end up being presented, but we’ll have to hold a bit before it becomes solid.

>>>I thought DR. SHORE remixed Clint Mansell's Requiem For A Dream, but now I've read on various sites (audible beauty, for instance): 'Requiem For A Tower - by The Ant Farm (or Simone Benyacar / Dan Nielsen / Veigar Mairgersson)'

As I understand it, the producers of the early Two Towers trailers sought out a group to remix this piece into an LotR-worthy epic style, and it definitely wasn't Howard Shore.>>>

The excellent and admirable board members have already answered this, but I should also like to note that Shore DID score the ROTK trailer. I recently ran across the discs from these recording sessions… which leads me to the “updates” section!

I just got back from NY yesterday afternoon from a genuinely amazing trip to Shore’s offices. He and I took a good four to five hours and ran through the entire current edit for ROTK in the listening room. It is shaping up amazingly. There’s still one last bit of unused music waiting to be tracked down, but decisions are now being made about specific track breakdowns, etc. It’s really close now, and it’s ridiculously affecting and beautiful.

The rest of my time was dedicated to sorting through the unused music archives. This is a genuinely massive task. There are thousands of CDs worth of material… and about 3 months worth of continuous audio. Everything recorded was saved for all three films. The tough part is sorting through what exactly is in there in order to decide what is interesting. You don’t want to hear 13 takes of a Bag End cue where the third oboe missed a note (no, there’s no third oboe, I’m just for-instance-ing ), but you do want to hear the original version of the prologue that included the… well, I can’t say right now, but I will say that my heart skipped a beat when I found this!

If you will, remember that the LOTR scores were being composed concurrently with the film’s editing. This is why so many sessions were scheduled. Shore would often have to tweak or completely rewrite compositions as the film changed. This means there are alternate versions of nearly everything! Now some of these alternates have nothing more than one crescendo changed, which is interesting as a curiosity, but not really worthy of disc space. But there are some revelatory differences in the alternates as well; radically different approaches to mood, orchestration and thematic structure. In some cases there are entirely different compositions that matched different edits of the films.

If you get to the end of ROTK:CR and think you’ve heard all the LOTR music there is to be heard, think again!

>>>Gotta question for ya: will the music for the bonus disc be on just one disc or is it possible that it will be on more than one disc? I know...I'm greedy and lustful for LotR music!>>>

And this is now the big question! There is SO much material that I’m just trying to figure out how best to present it. This past weekend I felt like I heard LOTR 4… or maybe 4 and 5. I’m quite certain you will all feel the same elation… but I really need to sit down and figure out exactly how much disc space will be required to showcase everything that should be showcased. That’s the other trick, I’m still not done digging through the archives!

So this is an on-going thing. It may take a little bit, but I will certainly keep you updated. I know this comes of as yet another tease, but I thought you may be interested in these current events. And really, I just wanted to share my glee from this past weekend. Despite the fact that I can’t go into details, some of these discoveries made my heart pound. I can’t wait to share them with you.

As always, stay tuned!

-Doug

ttbk

[TheTennisBallKid]

Jim Ware has posted several clips of unused music from TTT and FOTR matched to the film on Youtube.

TTT

FOTR

More TTT

More TTT

Youtube takes forever to load with my connection speed, but what I've seen so far has been quite well done....



ttbk

[yovargas]

Is it possible to do a "soundtrack and visuals" only playthrough of the movies with the Complete Scores?

[Primula Baggins]

I wonder if they'll ever come out with an "isolated soundtrack" version of the films, where you can play the movie with just the score, no dialogue or other sound. I know I've seen them done with other films.

Maybe if they do a proper HD release, of the EEs and with extras?

[TheTennisBallKid]

Is it possible to do a "soundtrack and visuals" only playthrough of the movies with the Complete Scores?

Not really, the first two scores are both about half an hour shorter than their respective films. So, you'd have to be pausing and unpausing a lot, and it'd be too difficult to keep them in sync. It's possible (and fairly easy) to do it for a short period of time, though. And that can be interesting...

To do it for the whole film, you'd need to have some good video-editing software and skills (like the fan who did the clips I linked to), and a lot of time on your hands. I have neither.

Or, as Prim suggests, maybe they'll include an isolated score feature on a future DVD set...there are a number of obstacles that would have to face though (possible licensing issues; costs....they might have to prepare a new mix, etc.; The Powers That Be might not think it'd be worth it, isolated scores admittedly not appealing to that large of a demographic....). It'd be nice, though, a fascinating alternate way to view the films....I'm a fan of isolated scores in general, but LOTR is especially well-suited for it, and could probably stand up quite well as a viewing experience, too.

More TTT clips (The Passage of the Marshes, Shadowfax, Arwen's Fate, Osgiliath)




ttbk

[TheTennisBallKid]

Hi everyone,

Hey, you didn’t think I’d let the threat slip off the page, did you?

Why the lack of updates recently? Simple… this is the part of the project where the planning and drafts begin to be converted to the first mock-ups. Concept is heading to the physical world… and so for the conceptual people, this is the hurry up and wait period. Though, to be honest, the waiting isn’t going to last much longer.

The liners, which, as you’ll remember, went in to Warners a few weeks back, are due back any day now. The track titles and layouts are all essentially done, though there was a little bit or tweaking as recently as last week.

As of right now, the average number of tracks per disc is 13.5 Yes I know, that’s a ridiculously hazy figure (and the .5 isn’t helping anything!), but I figured maybe it could lead to some fun guessing games! I’ll give you this much of a hint… one disc will feature fewer tracks than the others, though not less music.

Oh, and after a brief perusal of the track titles guesses… I don’t think anyone has nailed one yet, but several have come close.

So that’s the boxed set. The next major deadline is Sept. 7, when the final booklet (including layout edits) is due back at Warners.

We also did another big meeting on the book this past week. Discussions are getting much more specific – what should the physical style be like, how many discs of multimedia material can we include, what’s a good release date, when would advertising kick in. It’s funny, although this is really the culmination of the whole project it still feels like virgin territory. I mean, the boxed set production is somewhat down to a science now, but a book? That’s a horse of a different color!

Thankfully, we all seem to be on precisely the same page. We’re pushing the idea that this needs to be deluxe in every sense of the word. That it has to be treated like the culmination of a project the world has watched for the better part of a decade now. It has to be intrinsically artistic unto itself – and it has to bring that artistry to every aspect of the project: the “coffee table” aspect, the “textbook” aspect, the “multimedia” aspect; the “historical” aspect… everything. No one wants to see this done half heartedly. We want you to feel like the boxed sets have been building to this.

Tough gig, eh?

Oh, I’m just realizing that I never addressed the post-Cleveland concert questions either. Sadly, I didn’t run into any board members there, though a handful of people from the crowd came to say hi, which was nice.

So, do I ever get sick of the Lord of the Rings music? (And I’m assuming that we’re speaking figuratively since, in the literal world, I got back from the concert and ran a fever for about 10 days!) Of course the answer is no. Understand, LOTR is by no means the only music I listen to… nor should it be for anyone. In fact, I don’t know that anyone who listened to nothing but LOTR could ever fully grasp its significance. Shore’s LOTR music is a part of this world’s amazing musical culture. I think we can only really grasp its beauty when we nestle is side-by-side with Sibelius, or the folk music traditions of Morocco, or observe how pan-diatonic clusters began in early American experimentalists, like Ives, or how the spindly chromatic layering of Hindemith informed Shore’s own sense of counterpoint, or study historical precedents for folk / art music cross-bleeding.

Shore’s music for LOTR is such a gem because it can hold its head high in the pantheon of great world art. But once you’re in that pantheon, poke around! It’s like going to the Louvre and spending every minute in front of Virgin on the Rocks. Yes, it’s amazing, but contextualize it! Look around!

Really, I’m not preaching anything to you guys, since you already know this. But this is why I never get sick of Shore’s LOTR. I spent last week listening to Tan Dun, Michael Torke, Joan Tower, Michael Giacchino, John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, Ralph Vaughan Williams, David Shire, John Adams, Mychael Danna, Shigeru Umebayashi, Elliot Goldenthal, Danny Elfman, Dominick Argento, Miles Davis, Max Roach (rest his soul), John Coltrane, Alexandre Desplat, Igor Stravinsky… oh yeah, and Howard Shore.

Some was for work, some for fun. But I loved it all, and didn’t get sick of a note of it.

Well… they do keep playing that Hinder tune Lips of an Angel at the gym… I got pretty sick of that about 45 seconds into the first listening, so yeah...


Enjoy the rest of your weekend, everyone.

-Doug

ttbk

[TheTennisBallKid]

]Hi everyone,

Bullet points!

--Packaging and liner notes mock-ups now back from Warner / Smog Design… oh, and front cover sticker, too! Looks beautiful. Now editing. You should be green with envy.

Which means that he just told us that the cover will be green, saving him from answering constant questions about it, which happened the last two years.

--Track titles officially finalized.

--Don’t know when the press release will be, but I’ll again stress we’re currently on a timeline that looks a great deal like last year’s. Take that as you will, armchair detectives of the net.

So....a press release within a couple weeks...and the actual release around late October/early November.

--Book / rarities discs on target for 2008… as of right now. I’d be surprised to see that change. Just pointing this out for those of you budgeting… ROTK will be released by itself this year. Hope this helps you plan accordingly. I don’t know the price tag, and I likely won’t until you do. Maybe Santa can help you out with all the above.

More later, eyeball-deep in work! Enjoy your embedded hints.

-Doug

Hopefully the book will be out before next fall...



ttbk

[TheTennisBallKid]

First:

CAST PERFORMERS
Billy Boyd
Dominic Monaghan
Viggo Mortensen
Liv Tyler


-Doug

Next, a link to a video of the unused music in "A Storm is Coming" (written to play under Gollum murdering Déagol) synced to the film:


And discussion that followed:

I wonder if there's any unused music for the 'history of Gollum' sequence that follows this?

There is.

Back to Annotated Score now!

Ever so briefly,

-Doug

In the film that sequence, which is about three minutes long, uses a electronic drone similar -- though not quite as intense -- to the one used for the murder scene. I'm very intested to hear what Shore wrote for this scene; variations on the two Gollum themes, perhaps?


ttbk

[Alatar]

Thats fantastic! Thanks TTBK.

[TheTennisBallKid]

THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING
THE COMPLETE RECORDINGS

SET FOR RELEASE November 6, 2007 ON REPRISE/WMG SOUNDTRACKS

Available For The First Time!
The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King - The Complete Recordings

Howard Shore’s complete Oscar-winning score for The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King, from the epic film trilogy The Lord of the Rings, will be available in a deluxe five-disc edition from Reprise/WMG Soundtracks on November 6, 2007.

This historic release contains 3 hours and 50 minutes of music on four CDs, comprising the full score of the 2003 film. The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King — The Complete Recordings marks the third and final edition of the three complete recording releases of the film trilogy whose score has been honored with three Academy Awards, four Grammy Awards and two Golden Globe Awards. This deluxe set includes exclusive new artwork, packaging, liner notes written by Doug Adams, author of the forthcoming book The Music of the Lord of the Rings Films and features Annie Lennox performing the Oscar-winning song “Into the West.”

Composed for symphony orchestra, adult and children's choir, and soloists, The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King — The Complete Recordings was performed by London Philharmonic Orchestra, The London Voices, The London Oratory School Schola featuring vocal performances by Annie Lennox, Renée Fleming, Sissel, Ben Del Maestro and cast members Billy Boyd, Liv Tyler, Viggo Mortenson, and Dominic Monaghan. The score also features solos performed by renowned flautist Sir James Galway.

The fifth disc is a DVD-Audio presenting the entire The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King — The Complete Recordings in Advanced Resolution Surround Sound, Advanced Resolution Stereo Sound, Dolby Digital Surround Sound, and Dolby Digital Stereo Sound.

The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring – The Complete Recordings, was released on December 13, 2005 and spent months in Amazon.com’s top 100 Sales Ranking, and garnered some of the best reviews of the year. “For fans of any of The Lord of the Rings films, The Fellowship of the Ring/Complete Recordings is an essential experience,” Heather Phares, All Music Guide. “The Complete Recordings is last year’s most important archival soundtrack release, expanding and preserving one of the finest and most significant recent scores in all of film music. Shore’s Lord Of The Rings trilogy is an operatic symphony that is among the finest musical accomplishments of the last half-century. The plethora of unreleased material on this beautifully packaged edition is mouth-watering at the least, and the sonic dynamic achieved on the surround sound DVD of the entire 180-minute score is simply astonishing. ” Randall Larson, Music From the Movies.

ttbk

[Voronwë the Faithful]

w00t!

[Inanna]

I want all. All, all, all.