Míriel and Finwë: Lessons in Love, Justice & Healing

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MithLuin
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Post by MithLuin »

Cerin, if it makes you feel any better, there is nuance to it.

Míriel knows that she herself had no choice - because of her weariness, her spirit had to flee her body. (Finwë, being happy and content himself, didn't get this). No one understood how profound the weariness was.

But, elves aren't mortal - that wasn't a "permanent" choice. Once she did that, a sojourn in the Halls of Mandos should have healed her...and she could return.

In that case, it would have been Finwë's job to wait for her.

But he's impatient - after not too long, he basically petitions the Valar to demand she come back...and then the debate in question happens.

She is given a choice...tell your husband that you (may) return someday, and for him to just cool it....or tell your husband "I will never return," thus freeing him to take a new wife. Since she hadn't been in the Halls of Mandos all that long yet, she immediately said "I'm not coming back - ever!"

That is what she means by abandonment and rejection. It wasn't the choice to leave...(which, as you say, wasn't much of a choice)...it was the choice to not return, which was something she could have done. Tolkien implies that she didn't really think about what it would mean to stay disembodied for all eternity when she made that choice.

I agree that Finwë doesn't come across as being that understanding...but he has no basis for relating to what she's gone through. He is happy to be a father, and doesn't understand why it's a burden for her to be a mother. Compound that with the fact that elves don't get sick, so there is really no...language...to describe what she is going through. All she can say is "I'm soooo tired." And all he can think is, "well, get some sleep, then!" not realizing that by tired, she means her soul is withered.

Given enough time to come to terms with her death, he may have grown to be more understanding. But then he met Indis ;).

Besides playing with the idea of a "second love," I think he was working out the practicality of marriage among immortals. His own understanding of marriage was that it was "lifelong" - til death do us part. But, what does this mean for beings whose lives last as long as the earth? The simple answer is "they can marry once, and that's it." But he wanted to figure out what constraints would "dissolve" an immortal marriage. The constraint put on Míriel - never to return to her body - is the prerequisite for dissolving an Elvish marriage. You don't just have to die - you have to promise to stay dead. Slightly macabre, perhaps, but that's why he has the Valar debate all sides of the issue, so that the best for Míriel, Indis, and Finwë can be considered. They do agree that Finwë, while 'wanting' more children, doesn't exactly have a 'right' to them...the universe doesn't owe him a big family ;). But at the same time they acknowledge his grief, and that 'demanding' that he be content with his lot doesn't really work.
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Post by Cerin »

Thanks, Mith. :)

I didn't realize it was even an option for an Elf's spirit to return to the body once it had left. I don't think that possibility was alluded to in the Sil text.
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Post by MithLuin »

Only obliquely. When Finrod dies, it says that he was later walking in Valinor with his father (which implies rebirth somehow), but no, he doesn't spell it out. It is easy to miss "Elvish reincarnation" in the Silm text as written. ;)
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Cerin, that is entirely Christopher Tolkien's fault. Though most of what Mith is describing is contained in the separate essay called Of the Laws and Customs Among the Eldar Pertaining to Marriage and Other Matters Related Thereto: Together With the Statute of Finwë and Míriel and the Debate of the Valar at its Making" (which while not designed to be part of the text of the Silmarillion probably should have been included as an appendix, along with the Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth) there was a shorter summary that still makes this much clearer that was written by Tolkien to be included in the Silmarillion text and was nonetheless (and inexplicably) omitted by Christopher Tolkien.

One short point that I want to make (though I don't have time to elaborate on it; I shouldn't really be here right now at all) is that before Míriel no incarnate spirit had ever "died" before. Therefore, no one knew quite how to deal with it, the Valar included. It is important to note that this new development was a result of the marring of Arda by Melkor. This stark fact illuminates the whole debate of the Valar (which we have yet to discuss in detail).
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Post by Cerin »

Voronwë wrote:It is important to note that this new development was a result of the marring of Arda by Melkor.
What new development do you mean -- that of an incarnate spirit dying? If so, how was this the result of the marring of Arda by Melkor? I would have thought it was the result of the nature of Fëanor, with his unusually fiery spirit that took so much out of Míriel to bring forth. But surely the nature of Fëanor was not the result of the marring of Arda by Melkor?

Is Christopher Tolkien still living? Had you ever entertained the thought of writing to him and asking about why he omitted certain things?
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Cerin wrote:
Voronwë wrote:It is important to note that this new development was a result of the marring of Arda by Melkor.
What new development do you mean -- that of an incarnate spirit dying? If so, how was this the result of the marring of Arda by Melkor? I would have thought it was the result of the nature of Fëanor, with his unusually fiery spirit that took so much out of Míriel to bring forth. But surely the nature of Fëanor was not the result of the marring of Arda by Melkor?
Cerin, I will need to wait until I have access to my copy of Morgoth's Ring to respond to this (other then to say that I strongly urge you to get a copy so that you can read the material yourself. :))
Is Christopher Tolkien still living? Had you ever entertained the thought of writing to him and asking about why he omitted certain things?
Yes, he is still alive. I haven't not really though much about the material that he omitted from the Silmarillion until I embarked on my recent project tracking the creation of the published document. I have given it some thought since, however. Quite frankly, from what I know of him, I don't think he would respond positively to such an inquiry. As for the question "what do I have to lose?" I think doing so might increase the chances that he would take steps to prevent me from publishing my work, which I (either arrogantly or foolishly) have slight hopes of doing.
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Post by Cerin »

Voronwë wrote:Cerin, I will need to wait until I have access to my copy of Morgoth's Ring to respond to this (other then to say that I strongly urge you to get a copy so that you can read the material yourself. ) :)
First things first. :oops:

(Though I think I will be making quicker progress with the Sil now that I have adopted a more detached perspective.)


As to the other, I see your point. I think it would be grand if you could publish your Sil investigation.
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Post by MithLuin »

Heheh, yes, read the Sil first!

But if you are interested in checking out Morgoth's Ring (without, you know, buying it), I would recommend looking in a college library (if you have access to one). Many of them would have it directly, or would be able to get it for you (quickly and for free) on loan from another college library. I know people have mentioned that it is often difficult to find in public libraries and local bookstores (though of course, it's always available on the internet bookstores!)

Remember that CJRT learned a lot about the material after he'd published the Sil. Some decisions were made in ignorance, and occasionally he expresses regret for choices made in HoME. At least we have HoME, so we can see what could have been ;). But my guess is that he didn't want to confuse readers too much, and therefore left out some of the explanations. (That makes sense, really it does!)
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

MithLuin wrote:Remember that CJRT learned a lot about the material after he'd published the Sil. Some decisions were made in ignorance ...
That doesn't work here, I'm afraid, Mith. He was clearly aware of this material, because he DID use some of it in the published text. Even some small excerpts from the Laws and Customs itself.

Now, going back to Cerin's question.
What new development do you mean -- that of an incarnate spirit dying? If so, how was this the result of the marring of Arda by Melkor? I would have thought it was the result of the nature of Fëanor, with his unusually fiery spirit that took so much out of Míriel to bring forth. But surely the nature of Fëanor was not the result of the marring of Arda by Melkor?
Really, to properly answer that question I would need to summarize the entire debate of the Valar. But I'm not going to do that, at least not yet. Instead, I'm going to give you the words of Yavanna, responding to Aulë, who made basically exactly the same point that you make (Ulmo and Manwë himself both answer Aulë with more authority then Yavanna does, but somehow it seems more fitting to give her words):
'My lord Aulë errs', she said, 'in that he speaks of Finwë and Míriel as being free in heart and thought from the Shadow, as if that proved that naught that befell them could come from the Shadow or from the marring of Arda. But even as the Children are not as we (who came from beyond Arda wholly and in all our being) but are both spirit and body, and that body is of Arda and by Arda was nourished: so the Shadow worketh not only upon spirits, but has marred the very hron of Arda, and all Middle-earth is perverted by the evil of Melkor, who has wrought in it as mightily as any one among us here. Therefore none of those who awoke in Middle-earth, and there dwelt before they came hither, have come here wholly free. The failing of the strength of the body of Míriel may then be ascribed, with some reason, to the evil of Arda Marred, and her death be a thing unnatural. And that this should appear in Aman seemeth to me as to Ulmo a sign to be heeded.'
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Post by Alatar »

Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote:Though most of what Mith is describing is contained in the separate essay called Of the Laws and Customs Among the Eldar Pertaining to Marriage and Other Matters Related Thereto: Together With the Statute of Finwë and Míriel and the Debate of the Valar at its Making" (which while not designed to be part of the text of the Silmarillion probably should have been included as an appendix, along with the Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth) there was a shorter summary that still makes this much clearer that was written by Tolkien to be included in the Silmarillion text and was nonetheless (and inexplicably) omitted by Christopher Tolkien.
There's 107 words in that sentence. Are you a lawyer or something?


Voronwë, I think you should consider contacting CRT. Don't mention the possibility of publishing, simply inquire as a fan. It's an opportunity you may not have in a few more years and you might regret not taking the chance.
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Post by Cerin »

Thanks, Voronwë.

So basically every less than ideal thing that happens can/should be attributed to the evil of Melkor. If Melkor had not marred Arda, Míriel would have had the strength to deal with bringing forth the extraordinary spirit of Fëanor.

This seems to put the Children in the position of victims of an outside evil.
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Cerin, once again I'll need to wait until later when I have access to the book to respond. Suffice it to say that it is not quite that simple. :)
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Post by Old_Tom_Bombadil »

This is slightly off topic, but to the point:

Christopher Tolkien's efforts in assembling, editing, and publishing his father's work is nothing short of Herculean. I believe he has also been extremely forthcoming in confessing errors of judgment on his part which, given the complexity of the task, I find quite forgivable.

I am thankful for the wonderful gift that Professor J.R.R. Tolkien left us, and am thankful that he had a son who has been willing and able to complete the work left behind when he sailed West.

I will never disparage the work that Christopher Tolkien has done.
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Cerin wrote:Thanks, Voronwë.

So basically every less than ideal thing that happens can/should be attributed to the evil of Melkor. If Melkor had not marred Arda, Míriel would have had the strength to deal with bringing forth the extraordinary spirit of Fëanor.
No, not entirely. Both Míriel and Finwë bear some blame for their own choices, as Ulmo explains:
Though I do not condemn, yet still I will judge. Herein I perceive not only the direct will of Eru, but fault in his creatures. Not guilt, yet a failing from the highest which is the Hope of which the King hath spoken. And I doubt not that the taking of the higher road, an ascent that though hard was not impossible, was part of that purpose of immediate good of which Niënna speaketh. For the fëa of Míriel may have departed by necessity, but it departed in the will not to return. Therein was her fault, for this will was not under compulsion irresistible; it was a failure in hope by the fëa, acceptance of the weariness and weakness of the body, as a thing beyond healing, and which therefore was not healed. But this resolve entailed not only abandoning her own life, but also the desertion of her spouse, and the marring of his. The justification which she urged is insufficient; for by the gift of a child however great, nor indeed by the gift of many children, the union of marriage is not ended, having further purpose. For one thing, Fëanaro will be deprived of the mother's part in his nurture. Moreover, if she would return she need bear no more, unless by the renewal of rebirth her weariness were healed.

'Thus Finwë was aggrieved and claimed justice. But when he called her and she did not return, in only a few years he fell into despair. Herein lay his fault, and failing in Hope. But also he founded his claim mainly upon his desire for children, considering his won self and his loss more than the griefs that had befallen his wife: that was a failing in full love.

The fëar of the Eldar, as Niënna hath said, cannot be broken or forced, and the motion of their will cannot therefore be predicted with certainty. Yet it seemeth to me that there was hope still that after repose in Mandos the fëa of Míriel should return of itself to its nature, which is to desire to inhabit a body. This strange event should issue, rather than in dissolving their union, in the use by Finwë of the patience of full love, and the learning of Hope; and in the return of Míriel, wider in mind, and renewed in body. Thus together they might foster their great son with joined love, and his right nurture be assured. But the fëa of Míriel hath not been left in peace, and by importuning its will hath been hardened; and in that resolve it must remain without change while Arda lasteth, if the Statute is declared. Thus the impatience of Finwë will close the door of life upon the fëa of his spouse. This is the greater fault. For it is more unnatural that one of the Eldar should remain for ever as fëa without body than that one should remain alive wedded but bereaved. A trial was imposed upon Finwë (not by Míriel only), and he hath asked for justice, and relief.'
Edit: Cross-posted with Old Tom. Tom, I'm thankful for Christopher Tolkien's work as well, as I have said many times.
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Post by axordil »

Can I disparage the work he didn't do? ;)

Seriously, I'm grateful for the attempt he made in the Sil and UT too. And I am with V. on the fact that CJRT seems willing to admit things he (and we :D) feel were mistakes.

But I guess I feel the way about his work the way some feel about PJ's: for every moment of greatness there's a moment of less-than-greatness that distracts.
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

That's an apt comparison, Ax. And truly I didn't set out to disparge CT's work, but I have found much more to criticize then I expected to, mostly very curious omissions (most of which he neither explains nor apologizes for).
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Post by axordil »

Looking into ANY literary work's creation is going to have surprises, not all good. In this case, I am put in mind of why people who love sausage should never watch it being made. ;)
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Post by Sassafras »

Better late than never. :D

<An admission: I’m having another one of those days (all too frequent recently) where my brain just wont function properly and I simply cannot find the right words to express even simple thoughts. Each time I try I seem to spawn pretentious babble. So. What survives is severely truncated and I hope (probably in vain) that it is not too unintelligible.>

Musings:

I’ve been thinking about Míriel and considering the enormity of the role assigned to her in Tolkien’s mythology. Of how, what seemed at first to me to be only a moral question: the abandonment of her son, is actually a pivotal moment in the radical change of course in direction of the history of Arda.

She is the catalyst.

(Laws and Customs)
Also the Eldar say that in the begetting, and still more in the bearing of children, greater share and strength of their being, in mind and body, goes forth than in the making of mortal children.

When this snippet is added to the exceptional circumstance surrounding the birth of Fëanor as told in the Silmarillion, it becomes obvious that Míriel is beyond tired, beyond weary … her spirit is depleted. She has invested every last ounce of the strength she possessed in bearing this most remarkable child.

But in the bearing of her son Míriel was consumed in spirit and body; and after his birth she yearned for release from the labour of living.

As I see it, the birth of Fëanor has sapped all of her will and all of her resolve … and in near total exhaustion she is reduced to the bare essentials of self- preservation That light within, that spark which illuminates, has grown dim and her soul has folded in upon itself depriving her of the very ability to go on living. Her choice is no choice. She cannot remain in the physical world and be wife to Finwë or mother to Fëanor … nothing remains … she is empty.: The magnitude of the fire that is Fëanor has sucked all life out of her.

It is indeed unhappy,’ said Muriel ‘and I would weep, if I were not so weary. But hold me blameless in this, and in all that may come after.

She knows then. :shock: Or at the very least she has the percipience of foresight which comprehends the consequences of her death will prove enormous …. Reaching far beyond the immediacy of one widowed husband and once small infant deprived of maternal nurture.

Consider also …. The impact of the unchaining of Melkor. Is his release by Manwë at the exact moment of Fëanor’s arrival upon the scene by chance? Accident? Coincidence? I think not. The brilliance of Fire clashing with the heat of Melkor (Arises in Might) will entwine and carve a path littered in the agony of wrong choices.

Then he looked at their glory and their bliss, and envy was in his heart; he looked upon the Children of Ilúvatar that sat at the feet of the Mighty, and hatred filled him; and he looked upon the wealth of bright gems, and he lusted for them; but he hid his thoughts, and postponed his vengeance.

A path whereby the world is changed forever and the Light that was Valinor is re-made into something other than what it was.

The splintering has begun.

<I see all of these events as the concrete, audible manifestations of the notes and melodies sung into being by the music.>

In Aman the blessed Light (exemplified by the Two Trees) has shone whole and pure and unsullied. No blemish, no stain, mars the bliss of spiritual perfection that the Light bestows.
Yet now as Míriel can do no more except abdicate from corporeal life, and in doing so deny her child a mother’s touch. Fëanor is set firmly, irrevocably into the rigidity of absolute pride and absolute folly. He will doom the Noldor through his obduracy and unwittingly become Melkor’s pawn.


It is by conjuncture of this trilogy of circumstance then, ( Fëanor’s birth, Míriel’s departure and Melkor’s unchaining) that the unifying brilliance of ‘The Noontide of the Blessed Realm’ is diminished; harmony is destroyed and is replaced by the cacophony of Arda Marred. Where once was perfect white light now there is the multi-faceted prism of reflected colours.


<I should point out that it is my contention that it was necessary for all of this to occur. I hold her blameless for without Míriel’s inability to remain with Fëanor … very likely the story would have been vastly different. The Doom of the Noldor leads us (somewhat circuitously) through to the Long Defeat which in turn allow for the dominion of Men … which is enriched by the merging of specific bloodlines … all to prepare the way for the eventual (hopeful) healing of Arda Marred.>

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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Very excellent post, Sass (and completely intelligible, though I suspect the untruncated version would have been as well). I'll have to think about what you have written before making any responses, but I wanted to add these words of Manwë's to the mix, because I think they bear extremely heavily on the whole debate that we have been having about free will and Eru's role in the story from when we first started discussing the Silmarillion:
'Therefore I deem that Ulmo is to be followed rather, holding that Eru need not and would not desire as a special instrument of his benevolence a thing that is evil. Wherefore, indeed, should he intrude death as a "new thing" into a world that suffereth it already? Nonetheless, Eru is Lord of All, and will use as instruments of his final purposes, which are good, whatsoever any of his creatures, great or small, do or devise, in his despite or in his service. But we must hold that it is his will that those of the Eldar who serve him should not be cast down by griefs or evils that they encounter in Arda Marred; but should ascend to a strength and wisdom that they would not otherwise have achieved: that the Children of Eru should grow to be daughters and sons.

'For Arda Unmarred hath two aspects or senses. The first is the Unmarred that they discern in the Marred, if their eyes are not dimmed, and yearn for, as we yearn for the will of Eru: this is the ground upon which Hope is built. The second is the Unmarred that shall be: that is, to speak according to Time in which they have their being , the Arda Healed, which shall be greater and more fair than the first, because of the Marring: this is the Hope that sustaineth. It cometh not only from the yearning for the Will of Ilúvatar the Begetter 9which by itself may lead those within Time to no more than regret), but also from trust in Eru the Lord everlasting, that he is good, and that his works shall all end in good. This the Marrer hath denied, and in this denial is the root of evil, and its end is in despair.'
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Sass, I've thinking about your words about the confluence of the threefold events of Fëanor's birth, Míriel's death, and the unchaining of Melkor, and particularly the pivotal role that Míriel plays (or should play) in the narrative of Arda. It very much makes me think of Ulmo's words in the debate of the Valar about the Statute (I'm sorry to do so much quoting, but to make sense of all this really requires consideration of the words of the Valar):
And death is for the Eldar an evil, that is a thing unnatural in Arda Unmarred, which must proceed therefore form the marring. For it if the death of Míriel was otherwise and came from beyond Arda (as a new thing having no cause in the past) it would not bring grief or doubt. For Eru is Lord of All and moveth all the devices of his creatures, even the malice of the Marrer, in his final purposes, but he doth not of his prime motion impose grief upon them. But the death of Míriel has brought sorrow to Aman. The coming of Feanaro must proceed certainly from the will of Eru; but I hold that the marring of his birth comes of the Shadow, and is a portent of evils to come. For the greatest are the most potent also also for evil. Have a care, my brethren, thinking not that the Shadow is gone for ever, though it is beaten down. Doth it not dwell even in Aman, though you deem the bonds to be unbreakable?
But to make sense of all this, and figure out what the Valar are really talking about, one must go back to the initial words of Manwë, to understand that what this debate is really about is the difference between Healing and Justice (hence the change in the title that I have now done):
In this matter ye must not forget that you deal with Arda Marred -- out of which ye brought the Eldar. Neither must ye forget that in Arda Marred Justice is not Healing. Healing cometh only by suffering and patience, and maketh no demand, not even for Justice. Justice worketh only within the bonds of things as they are, accepting the marring of Arda, and therefore though Justice is itself good and desireth no further evil, it can but perpetuate the evil that was, and doth not prevent it from the bearing of fruit in sorrow. Thus the Statute was just, but it accepted Death and the severance of Finwë and Míriel, a thing unnatural in Arda Unmarred, and therefore with reference to Arda Unmarred it was unnatural and fraught with Death. The liberty that it gave was a lower road that, if it led not still downwards, could not again ascend. But Healing must retain ever the thought of Arda Unmarred, and if it cannot ascend, must abide in patience.
Thus the Valar can only offer Justice, not Healing, though Justice leads to that lower road. But (going to back to the later quote of Manwë's that I cited earlier ;)), even the Marring of Arda leads in the end to greater things, because "Arda Healed", shall be greater and more fair than the original Arda Unmarred. It seems clear to me now that this was NOT Eru's original plan, but that in actuality Eru never HAD a plan, other then to let Eä Be, and that whatever did happen He would then allow it to proceed to the eventual consummation of goodness (and you thought that YOU were full of pretentious babble, Sass). :roll:

But the Valar could ONLY offer Justice, not Healing. As Mandos says in declaring his Doom (just before he "foretells" as quoted earlier):
It is our part to rule Arda, and to counsel the Children, or to command them in things committed to our authority. Therefore it is our task to deal with Arda Marred, and to declare what is just within it. We may indeed in counsel point to the higher road, but we cannot compel any free creature to walk upon it. That leadeth to tyranny, which disfigurth good and maketh it seem hateful.

'Healing by final Hope, as Manwë hath spoken of it, is a law which one can give to oneself only; of others justice alone can be demanded. A ruler who discerning justice refuseth to it the sanction of law, demanding abnegation of rights and self-sacrifice, will not drive his subjects to the virtues, virtuous only if free, but by unnaturally making justice unlawful, will drive them rather to rebellion against all law. Not by such means will Arda be healed.

'It his right, therefore, that this just Statute should be proclaimed, and those that use it shall be blameless, whatsoever followeth after. Thus shall the Tale of the Eldar, within the Tale of Arda, be fashioned.
Thus, the Healing of Arda will come only through the allowing the full Tale of Arda to play out to the end. And each of these events, Míriel's death, Finwë's coming together with Indis and bringing her children into the world, the marring of Fëanor's birth, and even the unchaining of Melkor all are necessary components to the eventual healing of Arda. And in Manwë's words about the Higher Path I have gleamed some greater understanding of his seemingly naive and incomprehensible action of freeing Melkor from his bonds.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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