Míriel and Finwë: Lessons in Love, Justice & Healing

[Sassafras]

Hmm. I'm going to go away and think about justice and healing a bit more.

But this ...

Thus, the Healing of Arda will come only through the allowing the full Tale of Arda to play out to the end. And each of these events, Míriel's death, Finwë's coming together with Indis and bringing her children into the world, the marring of Fëanor's birth, and even the unchaining of Melkor all are necessary components to the eventual healing of Arda. And in Manwë's words about the Higher Path I have gleamed some greater understanding of his seemingly naive and incomprehensible action of freeing Melkor from his bonds.

is essentially what I was so futilely trying to say in my last few lines. That the confluence of those three events were a necessary condition for the eventual making of the long, winding and wearisome road that might eventually lead to Ada Unmarred.

Had none of these things come to pass then Valinor would have remained static in it's perfection, the Elves would not have crossed into Middle-earth and the world would have been a lesser place. Out of the turmoil of great pain, as we know from the history, came great beauty and an even greater good.

even the Marring of Arda leads in the end to greater things, because "Arda Healed", shall be greater and more fair than the original Arda Unmarred.

Yes. Finrod speaks of the possibility to Andreth when he suggests to her that through the Edain the way might come.

It seems clear to me now that this was NOT Eru's original plan, but that in actuality Eru never HAD a plan, other then to let Eä Be, and that whatever did happen He would then allow it to proceed to the eventual consummation of goodness

I'm not sure I can agree with you here. Surely all things are contained within Eru's thought and surely, with the Elves at least, the broad strokes of their lives are written on the canvas of the music? I think that I still stand by my assertion that only Men possess anything approaching free will.

But I will give it more thought if I can.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

It seems clear to me now that this was NOT Eru's original plan, but that in actuality Eru never HAD a plan, other then to let Eä Be, and that whatever did happen He would then allow it to proceed to the eventual consummation of goodness

I'm not sure I can agree with you here. Surely all things are contained within Eru's thought and surely, with the Elves at least, the broad strokes of their lives are written on the canvas of the music? I think that I still stand by my assertion that only Men possess anything approaching free will.

But I will give it more thought if I can.

While you are giving it more thought, think again about these words of Manwë's:

Eru need not and would not desire as a special instrument of his benevolence a thing that is evil. Wherefore, indeed, should he intrude death as a "new thing" into a world that suffereth it already? Nonetheless, Eru is Lord of All, and will use as instruments of his final purposes, which are good, whatsoever any of his creatures, great or small, do or devise, in his despite or in his service.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

For example, the story of Míriel and Finwë ... the source tale is not about marriage but about the delusion of a King that death can be forestalled or undone. Tolkien has already made death not an issue for the elves, so the story cannot turn on this but turns instead on this sort of sacramental aspect of marriage which was probably of some interest to Tolkien. The core remains the same - we have a woman who is neither alive nor dead after going through a difficult childbirth, and her husband knows not what to make of this, what to hope for. Initially he hopes for her return but this turns out to be a delusion. But since Míriel cannot actually die in the Sil, the story cannot be about Finwë’s acceptance of death. It becomes instead about the morality of Míriel’s choice and Finwë’s right and his ability to love someone else given this situation. The Finwë-Míriel-Indis triangle become what the story is ‘about,’ even though its source remains in plain sight.

I agree in part that that is what the story is about, but on another level, it is about how the Marring of Arda led to the fall of the Elves. As Tolkien says (Letter 212):

In the Elvish legends there is record of a strange case of an Elf (Míriel mother of Fëanor) that tried to die, which had disastrous results, leading to the 'Fall' of the High-elves. The Elves were not subject to disease, but they could be 'slain': that is their bodies could be destroyed, or mutilated so as to be unfit to sustain life. But this did not lead naturally to 'death': they were rehabilitated and reborn and eventually recovered memory of all their past: they remained 'identical'. But Míriel wished to abandon being, and refused rebirth.

This decision of Míriel's has dire results, leading directly to Fëanor's rebellion (both because of his unnatural upbringing without a mother, band because of the rivalry that results from Finwë's remarriage). But as is made clear by the debate of the Valar, these unnatural events stem directly from the Marring of Arda by Morgoth. In the same letter, Tolkien goes on to say:

I suppose a difference between this Myth and what may be perhaps called Christian mythology is this. In the latter the Fall of Man is subsequent to and a consequence (though not a necessary consequence) of the 'Fall of the Angels': a rebellion of created free-will at a higher level than Man; but it is not clearly held (and in many versions is not held at all) that this affected the 'World' in its nature: evil was brought in from outside, by Satan. In this Myth the rebellion of created free-will preceded creation of the World (Eä); and Eä has in it, subcreatively introduced, evil, rebellions, discordant elements of its own nature already when the Let it Be was spoken. The Fall or corruption, therefore, of all things in it and all inhabitants of it, was a possibility if not inevitable. Trees may 'go bad' as in the Old Forest; Elves may turn into Orcs, and if this required the special pervasive malice of Morgoth, still Elves themselves could do evil deeds. Even the 'good' Valar as inhabiting the World could at least err; as the Great Valar did in their dealings with the Elves; or as the lesser of their kind (as the Istari or wizards) could in various ways become self-seeking.

What the story of Finwë and Míriel is really about (in my opinion) is how to find Healing from damage that the Marring of Arda has caused. And the answer, clearly, is in faith in the ultimate power of Eru to make things right in the end.

[Jnyusa]

What the story of Finwë and Míriel is really about (in my opinion) is how to find Healing from damage that the Marring of Arda has caused.

Yes, I agree, having now read this thread through again in full. I haven't read the HoME yet - rather, only some of it - but it is clear that Tolkien has filled out this story in a direction more ... expected of him.

I think that the quote from Letter 212 also answers in part something Sassy said earlier which made this manifestation of Arda Marred seem abrupt, and which struck me as similar to a question Cerin raised earlier, about the evil seeming to come from outside while the Eldar and Edain were unwitting victims. Tolkien's world, as he describes it in that letter, does seem truer to me of the world as we know it; that is, corruptible by its nature with 'weariness' being there from the beginning and gradually seeming to overcome all things, rather than being victim of some outside malevolence that strikes with suddenness.

Regarding the other thread, while writing there of the Finwë triangle, I was thinking only of what is writtten in the Sil. The larger debate of the Valar is not reproduced there. It simply presents the decision in favor of Finwë. But I take back what I said about the source of these ideas possibly being that old nugget of debate about who you are married to in heaven. That, obviously, is not what Tolkien was thinking about when he wrote the elaboration of this story. In fact, while reading the debate of the Valar I could not help thinking about Europe's dealings with Germany and the much greater evil produced by their post-war preoccupation with ' justice.' (It was WWI, remember.)

Sass said this much earlier in the thread:

I hold her blameless for without Míriel’s inability to remain with Fëanor … very likely the story would have been vastly different. The Doom of the Noldor leads us (somewhat circuitously) through to the Long Defeat which in turn allow for the dominion of Men … which is enriched by the merging of specific bloodlines … all to prepare the way for the eventual (hopeful) healing of Arda Marred.

(I think she was quoting someone else here. The passage is in 'hugs' but not in a quote box.)

I resist the temptation to think of the Edain as offering the final hope for Arda Healed ... that somehow their own fulfillment could not come about unless the elves suffered disastrous decline. It seems to me that both elves and men had the same shot at healing the world, and that the start which men made of it was not more promising than that of the elves. Men now are stuck in the Middle Earth and can no longer even see the light of Valinor.

How this final healing might come about is not anticipated by Tolkien, in my opinion, and to be truthful I am grateful that he did not write about it. Whatever form the ultimate world takes, the task before all creatures is the same - to do the little healing task that's in front of them whether they know how it will turn out or not.

Jn

[Sassafras]

Sass said this much earlier in the thread:

Quote:
I hold her blameless for without Míriel’s inability to remain with Fëanor … very likely the story would have been vastly different. The Doom of the Noldor leads us (somewhat circuitously) through to the Long Defeat which in turn allow for the dominion of Men … which is enriched by the merging of specific bloodlines … all to prepare the way for the eventual (hopeful) healing of Arda Marred.


(I think she was quoting someone else here. The passage is in 'hugs' but not in a quote box.)

No, I'm not quoting anyone else, Jn. All of those thoughts are out of my own little brain

I resist the temptation to think of the Edain as offering the final hope for Arda Healed ... that somehow their own fulfillment could not come about unless the elves suffered disastrous decline. It seems to me that both elves and men had the same shot at healing the world, and that the start which men made of it was not more promising than that of the elves. Men now are stuck in the Middle Earth and can no longer even see the light of Valinor.

Um, Men never saw the Light of Valinor or at least the Two Trees were destroyed by the time Eru's second children emerged in Hildórien. The Edain awoke to the light of the Sun and the Moon.

You may resist the temptation to think of the Edain as offering the final hope for Arda ... but I think if you will read the Athrabeth (which should have been included in the Sil per JRRT's wishes) you might find that the conclusion is inescapable.

Sorry, don't have time for more right now but I'll return with the relevent passages later on.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I look forward to that Sass.

The following passage comes not from the "Law and Customs" but from the last version of the story of Finwë and Míriel that Tolkien explicitly wrote to to be included in the Quenta Silmarillion but which was inexplicably not included by Christopher:

For the Valar were greatly concerned to see that their labour for the guarding of Valinor was unavailing, if any thing, living or unliving, was brought thither out of Middle-earth, and they perceived now more clearly how great was the hurt that Melkor of old had done to the substance of Arda, so that all those who were incarnate and drew the sustenance of their bodies from Arda Marred, must ever be liable to grief, ot do or to suffer things unnatural in Arda Unmarred. And this marring could not now be wholly undone, not even by Melkor repentant, for power had gone forth from him and could not be recalled, but would continue to work according to the will that had set it in motion. And with this thought a shadow passed over the hearts of the Valar, presage of the sorrows which the Children should bring into the world.

[Jnyusa]

Um, Men never saw the Light of Valinor or at least the Two Trees were destroyed by the time Eru's second children emerged in Hildórien. The Edain awoke to the light of the Sun and the Moon.

I should have said they no longer have any hope of contact with Valinor. The Eldar did try to bring men as close as possible to Valinor and in the days of Númenor Eldar from Valinor went back and forth.

On the other side of the coin there were also elves who did not accept the first invitation and did not see Valinor but still they knew that it was there and within reach (for them at least).

The Athrabeth was written of a time before the world was bent, and Finrod might indeed wonder whether it will be men who make a better job of it and bring about the healing. But men did not make a better job of it. And I think it would be a mistake to think, for example, that once Sauron is removed that's when the Healing of Arda begins, or to read any 'final age of the world' into Tolkien's stories. I think that he took some care to avoid this inference.

Jn

[MithLuin]

The Athrabeth suggests an 'explanation' behind the statement in the Sil that Men will take part in the second Music. It isn't that men will make a Paradise of Middle Earth....it is, after all, still Arda Marred. The suggestion is that Men have a role to play in the final re-making of the Earth. The elves (according to Finrod's theological speculations) also have a role to play, but theirs is one of memory, while the Men have one of renewal. But hopefully Sass will come back with some quotes to clear that up.

Meanwhile, I think it is a good time to point out that Tolkien's idea of having the angels take part in Creation is not incompatible with Christian teaching. It isn't 'mainstream' but it isn't in any way heretical, either. It is more of an acceptable (though not terribly popular) alternative explanation. I think this is significant, because it is the basis for 'Arda Marred' in the first place.

And Jny, you are right - Tolkien's answer to the question 'who are you married to in heaven?' is that 'you aren't.' We have one of his Letters to C. S. Lewis (unsent) that dealt with marriage, and he made a point of crossing out 'permanent' in his draft and replacing it with 'lifelong' (twice). Marriage ends with death. Elves, though, don't leave the circles of the world when they die, and being immortal, they can return - so the rules must be different for them - and that is the question he is exploring: "how does marriage work for immortals?"

[Jnyusa]

Meanwhile, I think it is a good time to point out that Tolkien's idea of having the angels take part in Creation is not incompatible with Christian teaching. It isn't 'mainstream' but it isn't in any way heretical, either. It is more of an acceptable (though not terribly popular) alternative explanation. I think this is significant, because it is the basis for 'Arda Marred' in the first place.

I'm of two minds whether to consider the Valar as angels or as derived from Norse/Celtic/Germanic gods and goddesses.

When the Sil first came out - it's hardly imaginable how eagerly this event was anticipated by those of us who had read LotR 12 or 13 years previous - - the Ainulindalë was such an enormous disappointment that I couldn't go through with the rest of the book. It really did seem like just a repetition of the Lucifer story with a few twists. And the language was so pretentious ... anyway, my first impression was that the Valar were just traditional Catholic angels.

Then when I forced myself to read further, a couple times without ever getting all the way to the end, I had a different impression, that they were more like Greek and Roman gods ... I hadn't read any northern myths at that time.

And only after reading discussions on TORC did I see how similar they were to northern constructs ... Celtic in their identification with different aspects of the earth, Norse in their Fatefulness, in the way their battles move things around on earth ....

The way I am thinking about it now, I think they were probably a combination of all these things in Tolkien's mind. If the body of his work were to be genuinely mythical, it had to have a numenous dimension, and I think that might have been actually a kind of struggle for him, to find the middle, to depaganize the northern gods and de-Catholicize the angels but without contradicting dogma.

It makes sense to me that Tolkien would not reach the point in his lifetime where he was completely satisfied with the final product.

And, much of the elaboration of the Sil that exists in HoME was written during the 1950s. That means - after WWII. It would be hard to underestimate the magnitude of the change in people's thinking about life and the universe and everything from before and after WWII. There is a visible shift of perspective in western lit at this point, and much of HoME is post-shift.

So ... what I'm saying in too many words is that I don't know.

I think it's hard to say anything too definitive about the Sil because it is, the final analysis, an unfinished work.

Jn

[axordil]

I wouldn't call it unfinished, not in the same sense that, say, the Canterbury Tales are unfinished. I think there WAS at one time (and possibly more than one time) a coherent vision for the whole enterprise, but that JRRT couldn't stop fiddling with it, as is the wont of authors with unpublished manuscripts everywhere.

Unfortunately, while some pieces were complete and coherent at the time of JRRT's death, others were in transition between visions--and versions--I think. Thus the unenviable job of CJRT et al.