Is Eärendil a Christ-Figure?

[axordil]

That's the passage, yes. I'm at work, so I can't get at the context it was in (if it was Gandalf, must it not have been a shared thought, as opposed to something the reader sees directly? I don't think we get omniscient view into Gandalf's mind anywhere in LOTR).

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Ax: when Sam ruminates on what Frodo may become?

I believe it's Gandalf who speculates that Frodo may become like a glass full of light for those who can to see him. (don't recall the exact words, but yes, he is answering Sam)

That's the passage, yes. I'm at work, so I can't get at the context it was in (if it was Gandalf, must it not have been a shared thought, as opposed to something the reader sees directly? I don't think we get omniscient view into Gandalf's mind anywhere in LOTR).

No, Sam is nowhere in sight. It is just Gandalf's speculating to himself (the omniscient view into Gandalf's mind that Ax says we don't get.

Gandalf moved his chair to the bedside, and took a good look at Frodo. The colour had come back to his face, and his eyes were clear, and fully awake and aware. He was smiling, and there seemed to be little wrong with him. But to the wizard's eye there was a faint change, just a hint as it were of transparency, about him, and especially about the left hand that lay outside upon the coverlet.

'Sill that must be expected,' said Gandalf to himself. 'He is not half through yet, and to what he will come in the end not even Elrond can foretell. Not to evil, I think. He may become like a glass filled with a clear light for eyes to see that can.'

'You look splendid,' he said aloud. ...

[Jnyusa]

Very good, Voronwë!

I thought I remembered Sam asking Gandalf what would become of Frodo, but that must have gotten a different answer which I don't now recall at all.

Jn

[axordil]

That's an odd, odd passage. I wonder if it's significant that Gandalf is described as saying it to himself, as opposed to "Gandalf thought."

I may need to go back with a highlighter at my paperback and look for patterns in how internalized thought is or isn't structured, character by character.

[Jnyusa]

I may need to go back with a highlighter at my paperback and look for patterns in how internalized thought is or isn't structured, character by character.



Now that's more work than I ever want to do!

Jn

[Primula Baggins]

I, uh, am out of highlighters , but my lingering impression of LotR is that Tolkien often uses "said to himself" to show character thought. It's a quaint convention now, though, so I may just have noticed it more.

[Athrabeth]

Gandalf moved his chair to the bedside, and took a good look at Frodo. The colour had come back to his face, and his eyes were clear, and fully awake and aware. He was smiling, and there seemed to be little wrong with him. But to the wizard's eye there was a faint change, just a hint as it were of transparency, about him, and especially about the left hand that lay outside upon the coverlet.

'Sill that must be expected,' said Gandalf to himself. 'He is not half through yet, and to what he will come in the end not even Elrond can foretell. Not to evil, I think. He may become like a glass filled with a clear light for eyes to see that can.'

And indeed, Sam can.

From "Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit":

He was reminded suddenly of Frodo as he had lain, asleep in the house of Elrond, after his deadly wound. Then as he had kept watch Sam had noticed that at times a light seemed to be shining faintly within: but now the light was even clearer and stronger.

Gollum can, as well, I believe:

Looking at Frodo, he shut his eyes and crawled away without a sound.

[Athrabeth]

Okay.....I'm back. My trip to the Little Big City took longer than anticipated, but the "to and fro" ferry rides afforded me the opportunity of rereading some relevant sections of the Sil.

And then I lost (AGAIN) the forerunner to this post and had to wait for my blood pressure to return to normal.

Sooooo.....I think I know now why referring to Eärendil as a "Christ-figure" doesn't sit well with me (and yes, I know that we're talking about a literary archetype here.)

It's too simplistic.

And actually, the "monomythic hero" label doesn't really work either.

Like much of Tolkien's writings, the story of the Silmaril's return to Valinor just doesn't seem to fit within the usual conventions of a given genre, this time, the mythological epic. Firstly, the story of Eärendil's "journey" blends almost seamlessly with that of his father, Tuor. It is almost exclusively through Tuor's "heroic tale" that we get any kind of insight into Eärendil's motivations and mind-set. It's almost as if the two characters actually serve as one "greater role" within the saga. At the end of "The Fall of Gondolin", we are told that Tuor feels old age creeping upon him and that the Sea-longing grows stronger in his heart. Building the great ship, Eärramë (translated, interestingly enough as "Sea-Wing"), he sets sail with his wife, Idril "into the sunset and the West", out of the reckoning of both Elves and Men. Tolkien tells us that it's rumoured that "Tuor alone of mortal Men was numbered among the elder race, and was joined with the Noldor, whom he loved", although just where he and Idril would settle down is a big question, given that the Doom of Mandos is still in effect.

After Tuor's departure across the Sea, we are immediately introduced to "bright Eärendil", whose Sea-longing takes on two purposes: to seek after his parents and "to find perhaps the last shore, and bring ere he died the message of Elves and Men to the Valar in the West, that should move their hearts to pity for the sorrows of Middle-earth."


But his great voyages do not serve his original purpose, and he is confounded by the enchantments and shadows that protect Aman. Bright Eärendil's courage and fortitude and birthright are somehow not enough. Something is missing that wasn't in any of the foreshadowings of Ulmo or Huor or Manwë..........Elwing. It is Elwing who would willingly sacrifice her life to keep the Silmaril from the sons of Fëanor, casting herself into the sea. It is Elwing who is rescued and transformed into a great white bird by Ulmo so that she can "seek her beloved". And it is Elwing who binds the Silmaril upon Eärendil's brow and stands beside him as Vingilot is turned, once more, towards the West. I find it quite remarkable that this selfless act of Elwing's - her rejection of a claim upon the gem that all in her family have made before her, and her choice to give back the Silmaril to the world - is not "played up" by Tolkien within the tale, nor alluded to in discussions about it. It always seems to be about "Eärendil the Blessed", but surely that blessedness begins with Elwing and the Silmaril.

Voronwë used a passage to illustrate the sacrifice that Eärendil was willing to make upon the shores of Aman:

"Here none but myself shall set foot, lest you fall under the wrath of the Valar. But that peril I take on myself alone, for the sake of the Two Kindreds"

But Elwing, once again, chooses her own path:

"Then would our paths be sundered for ever; but all thy perils I will take on myself also." And she leaped into the white foam and ran towards him.

Eärendil does indeed go alone to the halls of Valimar to deliver the errand of the Two Kindreds, but his ultimate fate is not thrust upon him by the Valar. He and Elwing are the first of the Half-elven to be able to choose which kindred's doom they will be joined to, and Eärendil defers to Elwing's choice to be judged among the Firstborn. In his heart, he yearns for the "Gift" of Men, being "weary of the world", but he doesn't make this sacrifice for humankind......he makes it for his own beloved wife. Both Eärendil and Elwing are told that they cannot "walk again ever among Elves or Men in the Outer Lands", but when one thinks about it, isn't that the condition that all the Eldar must abide by once the Curse of Mandos is lifted and they are allowed to return to the Blessed Realm? Only good old Glorfindal seems to have slipped by that requirement, for whatever reason (most likely a memory lapse on the part of his subcreator). And although Eärendil "trades", as axordil said, his humanity/elvishness for apotheosis, he is not sundered from his wife, nor from Valinor itself. The image of Elwing as a beautiful white bird, "rose-stained in the sunset", speeding to meet her lover as he approaches Aman after his great voyages is just so joyous.....not at all a reflection of some kind of burden that they both must share.

So there you have it. Tolkien, it seems to me, has given us a "redeemer" that does not quite fit the mold of the monomyth, either as "hero" or "Christ-figure". And he does this by providing, as in many other cases, the "yin" to balance the "yang"......the cleaving of the feminine and masculine (Lúthien and Beren, Melian and Thingol, Varda and Manwë, Bombadil and Goldberry, Aragorn and Arwen.....even the Two Trees themselves) to reflect how the unity of these two essential forces in the world can create a "magic" that is deeply profound and powerful.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Great post, Ath.

[axordil]

It is instructive that JRRT often deals with more or less balanced hero couples...and that the couples generally fare better in the long run than the solo heroes. It's also notable that just being married doesn't make you a couple in these terms...

I still stick to my guns on Eärendil as Christ figure, though. There isn't so much a mold to fit into or not as a list of attributes; share enough of them and you qualify, share more and you strongly qualify. A solo Eärendil would be a stronger Christ figure than a Eärendil with an Elwing, but there's enough there still to make the call for me.

Or JRRT could be a member of the Priory of Sion.

[ToshoftheWuffingas]

*waits patiently for Athrabeth to produce her book of critical studies on Tolkien*

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Or JRRT could be a member of the Priory of Sion.

The remarkable thing is that by all accounts, he was a conservative Catholic; I'm sure he would have been outraged by alternative theories of Christianity. And yet, the concepts of the divine feminine, and of balanced duality, run through his works so strongly. I think that is one reason why their attraction extends so far beyond just traditional Christians.

[axordil]

Often we are most outraged at what we believe too deeply to admit.

What strikes me most is that there is so little of it in the pagan source materials either. The gods and heroes of the "nameless North" of Sigurd and company which JRRT loved so dearly are pretty much a boy's club. There are significant female characters, but no heroic couples of the Beren and Lúthien/Tuor and Idril/Eärendil and Elwing type.

[Jnyusa]

There's that one brother of one of the main gods who is compelled to go to the afterworld and his wife chooses to accompany him. I've forgotten all their names now.

Jn

[axordil]

Is it Germanic or Celtic in origin? Do you remember that much? It would help in tracking it down...

Of course around here the odds of someone going "oh yeah, that's so-and-so and his wife" are pretty good.

[Jnyusa]

Germanic.

Who's that son in Norse myth that is always taken to be the monomyth hero in their stories ... shoot, I can't remember his name. (senior moment)

His brother is tricked by Loki, I think, and ends up having to spend the rest of his days in the afterworld. His wife joins him, and the 'hero' visits them there and promises not to forget them.

I thought I had read this story in Campbell, but I went through my Campbell (I've only got Hero here at home) and couldn't locate it in that book. I might have read it in a book taken from the library.

Cambell used it as an example of the earthy or low mimetic elements in Norse myth because the wife of the guy stuck in 'hell' asks the 'hero,' her brother-in-law, to bring her a thimble when he returns so that she can pass the time by sewing.

Jn

[axordil]

Ah wait...Loki was tied up with the entrails of his son in the underworld, where a serpent constantly dripped venom onto his face. His wife loyally accompanied him and held a bowl out to intercept the venom...until it filled up and she had to dump it out, at which point the venom hit and Loki writhed in pain (explaining earthquakes in some versions).

Is that it? It doesn't really sound right, but it's the only Loki in the underworld tale I know.

[MithLuin]

The remarkable thing is that by all accounts, he was a conservative Catholic; I'm sure he would have been outraged by alternative theories of Christianity. And yet, the concepts of the divine feminine, and of balanced duality, run through his works so strongly. I think that is one reason why their attraction extends so far beyond just traditional Christians.

I agree that the attraction of LotR (and the Silmarillion) extends beyond just Christians. I think this is mainly because Tolkien has managed to 'tap' roots and truths that are common to the human experience...and then translate them into terms that are palatable to modern people (as many of those myths are not). Duality generally refers to a balance of good and evil, not the sexes, but I understand what you mean here.

But I had to pounce on the the concept of 'divine feminine.' Tolkien was not writing about some covert idea that had to be smothered (or shoved under the rug) in his 'real life' religious worldview. Eru means "Alone" - so his actual God is not dual. Yes, of course Melian is of divine race, and who are Yavanna and Varda if not goddesses? Angels, perhaps, but angels do not marry (that I know of). I am not about to deny this truth or presence in his work...I think it is strong and clear. What I would like to deny is that it is incompatible with mainstream Christianity (or devout Catholicism). These divine beings (Maiar and Valar) are created, and thus it would be more unusual if they were not male and female than how he wrote them. He also makes a point of discussing just what is meant by 'male' and 'female' when you are speaking of a Vala who can assume a physical form as we put on clothes.

In a letter to his son, Tolkien described women (well, wives) as 'companions in shipwreck' (as opposed to goddesses on pedastals). I think he understood this truth about what men and women could accomplish working together. We all know that his model for Beren and Lúthien was his own relationship with Edith. But that's just it...he doesn't raise this partnership to the level of the divine - it is human (or elvish ).

I will very willingly acknowledge that there is a transcendental beauty to some of his female characters - Lúthien, Goldberry, Galadriel, and even Arwen. But this tendency to worship from afar is not engaged in by the women's husbands! Everyone who meets Lúthien is struck by her beauty, but what matters is whether they are moved to love her or to lust after her. Beren and Huan love her, and thus will serve her and die for her. Daeron is a mixed message (depending of which version you are reading), and the Sons of Fëanor fall firmly on the 'lust' side. So, the question is how men respond to her transcendental beauty.
The hobbits are abashed by Goldberry - Old Tom is not. Frodo is pierced by Arwen's eyes and relies on her jewel in his sickness....but Aragorn can stand next to her and converse normally with her and her father. (Not that he isn't captivated by her beauty...but he isn't overly dazzled, either). Galadriel is of course the most...whatever it is I'm talking about. She dazzles (for lack of a better word) the entire Fellowship, and you get the impression that she often has that effect on people. But does she have that effect on Celeborn? I think not. Why else would he open his mouth and say stupid things with no regard to her? (Maybe that's why she calls him wise ) But where does this picture of dazzling feminine beauty come from? Tolkien admited in one of his letters that the only thing he knew about beauty came from Our Lady (Mary, not the Magdalene).

Earendel is a Christ-figure in that he is a saviour of his people. But that doesn't make him divine! (Well, not a god, anyway). He is an elf, and a man, and a star. Do not take the metaphor too far....

So rather than being shut out from his religious sentiments...I think some of this embodied them. What he is writing about is the mystery of marriage and the reverence of holy women. If that isn't Catholic...
Oh, and Joseph Campbell was Catholic too, though I won't pretend that he was a devout Catholic...fallen-away, perhaps, or someone who had a few bones to pick with the Church .

[Jnyusa]

Ax - yes, it might have been Loki. I just remembered the name of the hero-god ... Wotan, right? And Wotan and Loki were brothers, iirc. So it may well have been a story about Loki himself that I am remembering (poorly).

Mith - your post is very elegant, yet I find myself bending away from it about 10 degrees. The reasons are somewhat difficult for me to define, because I would tend to agree with your approach as a matter of personal preference but I don't think it is a traditional Christian approach, or a traditional Jewish approach either.

He also makes a point of discussing just what is meant by 'male' and 'female' when you are speaking of a Vala who can assume a physical form as we put on clothes.

Yes, he says: " ... for that difference of temper they had even from their beginning, and it is but bodied forth in the choice of each, not made by the choice, even as with us male and female may be shown by the raiment but is not made thereby."

I do not know of any comparable belief in Christianity or Judaism that the angels have two genders as a matter of original 'temper.' We do find that construction in Islam. What it says in Genesis, though, is:

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives, whomsoever those chose <snip> The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.

I do not think that a notion of female demi-divinity is part of the 'official story' within either of our religions, but of course the idea itself has always been in the backwaters of western religion, with Lilith and Sophia and the special status of Mary.

I will very willingly acknowledge that there is a transcendental beauty to some of his female characters - Lúthien, Goldberry, Galadriel, and even Arwen. But this tendency to worship from afar is not engaged in by the women's husbands!

And I think the absence of a pedastal is something else that makes Tolkien's treatment different from the traditional Catholic approach ... (I say Catholic here rather than Christian because the Marianist tradition is only found in Catholicism). The perfection of womanhood as it is presented by the Catholic church in the figure of Mary really is something apart from mortal men and women.

A female demi-divinity who marries and bears children and lives as a mortal - even chooses to become mortal in the case of Lúthien and Arwen - this is something new and different in my opinion. There is no Christian or Catholic tradition supporting this approach that I know of. Mary's development, you know, goes in the opposite direction.

On the other topic:

Earendel is a Christ-figure in that he is a saviour of his people. But that doesn't make him divine! (Well, not a god, anyway). He is an elf, and a man, and a star. Do not take the metaphor too far....

Personally, I hesitate to take the metaphor anywhere at all. I haven't got that far along in the Sil yet, as I said earlier, but now that the description of Eärendil has been filled out a bit by others in the thread I think that he does fit a category more, perhaps, like the Hindu myths (substitute 'incarnation' for 'apotheosis') than anything we see in Christianity.

Jn

[MithLuin]

Elegant, perhaps, but not very clear .

I realize that male and female angels are not found in Christianity. I think I mentioned that they do not marry. They are (usually) described as young men, which is of course somewhat androgynous. Though, they sometimes have six wings, too .

What I was going for was the idea that what he was describing in these created being was just, well....marriage. Which is a very normal, human part of his (and everyone else's) religion.

His own religion may not incorporate the idea of married angels (any more than it has married elves...or any elves at all!), but it does have human marriage, and so.... his ideas aren't counter to that. In several places, he mentions that the elves and dwarves are just aspects of humanity - surely that applies to these women (Arwen, Galadriel, Lúthien) as well? I will admit that someone like Varda or Yavanna is more of a goddess, but in that case, you can find plenty of married gods and goddesses to draw on as examples.

Yes, he says: " ... for that difference of temper they had even from their beginning, and it is but bodied forth in the choice of each, not made by the choice, even as with us male and female may be shown by the raiment but is not made thereby."
I do not know of any comparable belief in Christianity or Judaism that the angels have two genders as a matter of original 'temper.' We do find that construction in Islam.

I think what I was getting at here is that Tolkien tells us what he thinks is meant by masculine and feminine (apart from the biology) - it's some sort of 'temper' that people have. And while he doesn't get into much more than to say 'that's the way we are', it's enough to establish what he might mean when he starts describing an ideal (or not so ideal) woman.

I know that to apply this to angels is not appropriate.

As for the Nephilim, I think that Tolkien would accept them as an attempt to give divine origin to heroes - like you would see in geneologies in any epic (Beowulf!). I do not think that particular interpretation is incompatible with being a devout Christian, though it probably isn't going to go over well on a literal-only interpretation of the text.

I do not think that a notion of female demi-divinity is part of the 'official story' within either of our religions, but of course the idea itself has always been in the backwaters of western religion, with Lilith and Sophia and the special status of Mary.

Well, yes. And so the idea is there. It isn't...a central idea. But it isn't alien, either. Neither of our religions accepts goddesses. God is Lord and Father. If you focus the spotlight on (for instance) Sophia, you've become a Gnostic and a Heretic (from my perspective). Mary is an interesting case. She is certainly exalted...but it is not in a different kind from the other saints - it is a matter of degree. They all get praise and veneration - she gets the Lion's share. But it is God whom you bow down and worship. Right?

But I guess this begs the question - who of Tolkien's characters is a female demi-divinity? Surely, the Valier would count. But they are so like the goddesses of other pagan religions (Celtic, Norse, Greek, Roman, Egyptian, etc), that they are really just a pantheon subject to monotheism. But they did not inspire those comments in this thread, anyway.
I would think Melian and Goldberry would be better candidates - they really aren't Elves or Men, and they are 'real' characters within the story (and within Middle Earth). They aren't removed in any way.
Galadriel and Arwen and Elwing are just elves. Beautiful and powerful elves, to be sure - but just elves.
Lúthien, I do not know how to place. An elf with a divine mother (whose gifts shine through occasionally), dazzling beauty, high doom, direct involvement in the Quest, and as you point out, that abnegation that results in mortality.

The theme of abnegation runs through Christianity, particularly the monastic tradition. There is a bit of "how much can you give up for love of God?" going on there. And so there are princesses who become nuns, wealthy ladies who go about wearing rags, Poor Clare of Assisi, Therese of Lisieux, etc. (It always strikes me as odd that the Catholic tradition can embrace such radical opposites as Therese of Lisieux and Joan of Arc - two very different French ladies, but both Saints!) And the exodus goes in the other direction, as well - girls who wanted to lead a monastic life, but were married off to Kings instead.

I am not going to suggest that any character in Tolkien is just like that...but I am suggesting that his characters are not in conflict with his faith. You can praise Sophia as much as you like...it is only when you worship her as a goddess that you overstep. No one in Tolkien's world ever worships anyone...except Sauron or Morgoth, and that is (of course) evil, false worship.

Personally, I hesitate to take the metaphor anywhere at all. I haven't got that far along in the Sil yet, as I said earlier, but now that the description of Eärendil has been filled out a bit by others in the thread I think that he does fit a category more, perhaps, like the Hindu myths (substitute 'incarnation' for 'apotheosis') than anything we see in Christianity.

Which would make me perfectly happy. I would wince if I thought people were actually confusing him for Jesus bounding into the story! There is a connection, but not an identification.