Catching Up to the Sil Discussion: Chapter 9

[Cerin]

Interesting questions, Wilma!

My impression is that it was not the music that bound some of the Ainur to the World. When they saw the vision of Arda, some of them bent all their thought and desire on it and made the decision to live there; that is, that they freely agreed they would evermore only exercise their power within the confines of the World.

Melian was a Maia, of lesser degree than the Valar. The description in Valaquenta talks about the Maiar as 'handmaids' or 'vassals' of the Valar; so perhaps we can surmise that each of the Valar had these helping spirits who would as a matter of course have gone with them when they chose to live in the World. I think this is borne up by the description in this chapter, of Melian as one of Lórien's people? Or perhaps the various Maiar also made a free choice as to whether to go to the World and offer their services to the various Valar.

We're also told that before the making of the World, Melian was akin to Yavanna; Yavanna and Oromë were the only Valar who did not thoroughly desert Middle-earth after the destruction of the lamps when they were busy founding Valinor. So this kinship with Yavanna seems to have come to the fore when the Elves awakened and Melian decided to go and 'fill the silence of Middle-earth with her voice and the voices of her birds'. Apparently, then, the Maiar had some freedom as to how they chose to exercise their service in the World. To me this seems like an act of compassion (for the world was suffering under the influence of Melkor, while the Valar were basking in bliss).

Your point about the spell is very intriguing. I've never understood spells. For example, in Wagner's Ring and Tristan and Isolde, it is spells that generate these legendary loves that become the substance of those tales. My reaction was always that a 'spelled' love wasn't a real love, but I think I'm just not relating to the concept properly or don't really understand it.

It struck me while reading this account of Melian and Thingol, that this spell and enchantment wasn't a deliberate thing, but more like something so wondrous and beautiful that anyone coming under it's sway would have been caught. Like a beautiful scent that you catch in the air, and you can't help but raise your face and try to follow it so that you can experience it more fully. The text never says Melian laid a spell on Thingol, but that 'an enchantment fell on him', and 'a spell was laid on him' when he took her hand. So I'm thinking that it was in Melian's nature, as most gifted in songs of enchantment, that being around her was irresistible. Even the Valar would leave their works, the birds their mirth, the bells were silent and the fountains ceased to flow when Melian would sing in Valinor!

This to me gives less of a sense of Melian deliberately thwarting the design to call the Elves to Valinor, than it being simply a consequence of her decision to dwell in Middle-earth and the chance that Elwë came to wander where he heard the song of Melian.

[Hachimitsu]

I kind of like that explanation.

[Cerin]

[Cerin]

Chapter 5 - Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalië

Ulmo comes to speak with the Vanyar and Noldor on the shores of the sea as they contemplate crossing into Valinor. His words and music turn their fear of the sea into desire. Ulmo uproots an island and anchors it in the Bay of Balar; the Eldar are then borne to Valinor upon this island. A horn of the island is grounded in the shoals and broken off; this is the Isle of Balar.

The Teleri, dwelling in East Beleriand, hear Ulmo's summons too late and are left behind; others still search for Elwë and are unwilling to go. The Teleri then press on to the Western shores and dwell there in longing, with Olwë, Elwë's brother as King. Ossë and Uinen (Maiar of the seas) befriend and teach them.

The Noldor are grieved at their sundering from the Teleri, and after many years Ulmo agrees to bring the Teleri to Aman, if they will come (most are willing). Ossë is grieved at the thought of losing them and persuades some to remain. These are the Falathrim, the Elves of the Falas; they become makers of ships.

Kinsfolk and friends of Elwë Singollo also remain, seeking him, although they greatly desire to see the light of the Trees. They call themselves Eglath, the Forsaken People. They dwell in the woods rather than by the sea, which fills them with sorrow. They joyfully receive Elwë when he awakes from his trance and comes forth.

Ossë follows after the host of Olwë and when they are come to the coast he calls to them, whereupon they beg Ulmo to stay their voyage. Ulmo grants their request and Ossë roots the island of transport to the foundations of the sea (the Valar are not pleased). It is thereafter called Tol Eressëa, the Lonely Isle. There the Teleri live under the stars of heaven yet in sight of Aman; by this long sojourn apart the speech of the Teleri is sundered from the speech of the Vanyar and Noldor.

Even in the radiance of Valinor the Vanyar and Noldor desire to see the stars. To this end, a gap is created in the mountains of the Pelóri, the Calacirya, where the Eldar raise a high hill (Túna) and build their city (Tirion). Yavanna makes for them a tree like to a lesser image of Telperion (Galathilion).

Aulë and his people come often to the Noldor; these have a great thirst for knowledge and soon surpass their masters. The masons of the house of Finwë discover the first gem stones.

We learn of the family of Finwë.

Slowly the hearts of the Teleri are drawn towards the light that flows out over the sea to the Lonely Isle. They are torn between the love of the music of the waves and the desire to see their kindred and to look upon the splendour of Valinor; in the end, desire of the light is the stronger. Ulmo sends Ossë to teach them the craft of ship-building, and eventually they are drawn by swans to the shores of Eldamar.

As the ages pass the Vanyar forsake the city of Tirion and dwell rather upon the mountain of Manwë or about the plains and woods of Valinor, becoming sundered from the Noldor; but the memory of Middle-earth under the stars remains in the hearts of the Noldor, and they abide in the Calacircya, and in the hills and valleys within sound of the western sea. The peoples of Túna and Alqualondë draw together in these days.

River Sirion - River which empties into the Bay of Balar, the Bay of the Sea.

Isle of Balar - Isle to which Ossë often came; it was formed when the eastern horn of the isle of transport broke off in the shoals off the mouths of Sirion.

Falathrim - those Teleri persuaded by Ossë to remain; the Elves of the Falas. They had dwellings at Brithombar and Eglarest and were the first Mariners and the first makers of ships; Círdan the Shipwright was their lord.

Eglath - The Forsaken People; those who would not stop searching for Elwë, and so missed the last departure for Valinor. The desire of Aman was ever in their hearts.

Tol Eressëa - the Lonely Isle, when Ossë rooted the isle of transport to the foundations of the sea in the Bay of Eldamar, where the Teleri abode under the stars of heaven, yet within sight of Aman.

the Calacirya - the Pass of Light, the gap made in the great walls of the Pelóri so the Eldar could see the stars

Túna - the high hill the Eldar raised, upon which they built their city

Tirion - the city of the Elves

Mindon Elaliéva - the Tower of Ingwë, the highest tower in the city of Tirion

Galathilion - the tree after Telperion, which Yavanna made for the Elves, planted in the courts beneath the Mindon

Celeborn - seedling of Galathilion planted in Tol Eressëa, from which came Nimloth, the White Tree of Númenor.

Sons of Finwë:
Fëanor - mightiest in skill of sword and hand, more learned than his brothers; his spirit burned like a flame; Fingolfin - the strongest, most steadfast and most valiant; Finarfin - fairest and wisest of heart; afterwards friend of the sons of Olwë

Míriel Serindë - mother of Fëanor

Indis of the Vanyar - mother of Fingolfin and Finarfin

Eärwen - swan-maiden of Alqualondë, married Finarfin

Seven sons of Fëanor:
Maedhros the tall; Maglor the mighty singer; Celegorm the fair; Caranthir the dark; Curufin the crafty; Amrod and Amras, twins, the youngest, great hunters (as was Celegorm)

Children of Fingolfin:
(Sons) Fingon (afterwards King of the Noldor in the north of the world); Turgon (lord of Gondolin); (Daughter) Aredhel the White (Ar-Feiniel, loved to ride and hunt)

Children of Finarfin:
(Sons) Finrod the faithful (afterwards named Felagund), Orodreth, Angrod, Aegnor; they were as close as brothers to the sons of Fingolfin; (Daughter) Galadriel, most beautiful of all the house of Finwë

Elendë - Eldamar

Alqualondë - the Haven of the Swans, the mansions of Olwë

This chapter seems much about enduring the suffering of unfulfilled desire. Longing for kindred, for the light, for the sea, for friends -- I think the Vanyar are the only ones who at no point seem to suffer a sense of loss or longing for what they don't have.

[Cerin]

I must say, I found this chapter almost unbearable in its burden of sorrowful circumstances and the warping of the fabric of destiny that the attendant imbalances seem to portend.

I've not read much tragedy, and I guess I don't really know what frame of mind to approach it with.

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Chapter 6: Of Fëanor and the Unchaining of Melkor

Míriel bore Fëanor and in doing so was consumed in body and spirit. Manwë delivered her to the care of Irmo in Lórien, but her spirit departed. Finwë lived in sorrow. For a time, he would go to sit beside Míiriel's body in Lórien (for her body remained unwithered); but then he went no longer, and thereafter gave all his love to his son.

Fëanor grew, and became of all the Noldor the most subtle of mind and skilled of hand. He discovered how gems and seeing stones could be made. He married Nerdanel, daughter of Mahtan, a great smith from whom he learned much. They eventually became estranged, as his later deeds grieved her; she bore him seven sons.

Finwë took a second wife, Indis the Fair, of the Vanyar. She was in all ways unlike Míriel. This second marriage displeased Fëanor, and he had no great love for Indis or her sons; he lived apart from them.

Melkor was brought before the thrones of the Valar. He looked upon their bliss with envy and hatred, but was able to hide such thoughts from them. He promised to aid the Valar in their works and help to heal the harm he had done. Manwë, being unable to see to the depths of Melkor's heart and unable in himself to comprehend evil, granted Melkor pardon; after a time of supervision he was allowed to go about Valinor freely, planning his revenge.

The Vanyar held Melkor in suspicion, because they dwelt in the light of the Trees and were content; to the Teleri he gave little thought, thinking them tools too week for his designs. But the Noldor took delight in the hidden knowledge he could reveal to them, and some hearkened to words that it would have been better had they never heard.

Fëanor more than any other of the Eldalië hated Melkor; it was he who first named him Morgoth.


Noontide of the Blessed Realm - the fullness of its glory and bliss, when the three kindreds of the Eldar were gathered in Valinor, and Melkor was chained.

Curufinwë - Fëanor, Spirit of Fire

[Hachimitsu]

This chapter seems much about enduring the suffering of unfulfilled desire. Longing for kindred, for the light, for the sea, for friends -- I think the Vanyar are the only ones who at no point seem to suffer a sense of loss or longing for what they don't have.

That is basically how I felt. I found it interesting that Ossë did not want soem of the elves (the Teleri I think), to leave that shore. That is why I feel there is some personal interest in some of the Valar and Maia in some of the actions towards the elves. I truly do not believe evrything done on concerning the management of the safety of the elves was altruistic. I think in some parts the Valar were bound by the music, in other cases not exactly.

I wish we knew more about the Teleri and the Vanyar. We know what the Noldor did and about their high families but not much about the other 2 groups.

EDIT: I will admit that maybe having some of the elves go to valinor was OK. Since it did not seem as if the many of the Valar were willing to go to where the elves were, but.. I have questions for later on concerning the Valar. They just seem inconsistant to me (I don't have too many problems with them in the third age but the first age and second age I have issues. )

[Cerin]

I'll look forward to hearing about those issues, Wilma. I had a few thoughts, too, about the early Elves vs. the later ones. Did they go on marrying and having children in the time of LoTR or were they all long past that stage of existence? Had they learned over time to master their emotions (thinking of the Vulcans in the Star Trek mythology)? Because my impression is that the Elves of LoTR seem wiser and more restrained than these early Elves, who seem more human to me.

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the concepts of the music, and foreknowledge, and the will of Ilúvatar.

It seems clear that both Ulmo and Ossë initially followed their own desires with regard to the Elves, yet things came 'round in the end to fulfill the Valar's decree.

[Cerin]

Well I think I may be giving up on this effort, at least from the initial perspective I started out with. For some reason I am finding the book overly oppressive when approached with a closer eye (as opposed to the more casual and markedly unretentive quality of my first reading).

I think this may tie in to the fact that the book was not presented to us by the author but is rather a compilation by someone else from various notes that represented over time the author's own developing ideas. This takes away much of the purpose for me, in attempting a closer examination (and in eventually reading the Histories). I am a literalist, not a transcendentalist, and consistency and a confidence in being linked to firm authorial intent is vital to me in seeking the meaning and appreciating the value of what I am reading.

So I'll continue with a lighter heart from a more distant perspective, but I think I've realized now that I will not succeed in emulating the in-depth consideration that marks the main discussion (the hope of which joining was the primary goal of this attempt to catch-up).




edit for clarity

[Cerin]

Chapter 7 - Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor

Fëanor pondered how the light of the Trees might be preserved, and he created the Silmarils, jewels of unknown substance that contained that light. Varda hallowed the Silmarils so that nothing of evil might touch them without being scorched and withered.

Melkor lusted after the Silmarils and his desire for them further inspired his attempts to end the friendship between the Valar and the Elves. He sowed subtle and cunning lies that eventually took root among the Noldor and poisoned the peace of Valinor.

Fëanor began to love the Silmarils with a greedy love, locking them away and forgetting that the light within them was not his own. The Valar were not pleased at this, wishing rather that the Silmarils had been committed to their keeping. Meanwhile Fëanor and Fingolfin grew proud and jealous of their rights and possessions as the elder sons of Finwë, and Fëanor believed a rumor begun by Melkor that Fingolfin and his sons sought to usurp the leadership of Finwë and of the elder line of Fëanor, and to supplant them by the leave of the Valar.

The Noldor began to forge weapons in this new climate of suspicion and distrust. Fëanor spoke open words of rebellion against the Valar. Finwë in concern summoned his lords to a council where Fëanor drew his sword against Fingolfin. For this he was brought before the Valar and banished from Tirion for 12 years, but not before answering questions that at last revealed the root of the unrest and the malice of Melkor.

Fëanor took refuge in Formenos and was joined by his father, leaving Fingolfin to rule the Noldor in Tirion. The Valar sought Melkor, but he eluded them and the light of the Trees seemed dimmed for this time, until Melkor fled Valinor through the Calacirya after his overtures to Fëanor were rejected.

Silmarils - three great jewels created by Fëanor, of unknown substance and containing the blended light of the two Trees

Formenos - stronghold dwelling of Fëanor and Finwë after Fëanor's exile from Tirion.

[Cerin]

How dreadful the descriptions are, of this violence and its effects: 'There was silence in Valinor, and no sound could be heard, save only from afar there came on the wind through the pass of the mountains the wailing of the Teleri like the cold cry of gulls.'

I was thinking Ungoliant must have been a Maia whom Melkor corrupted, as it talks about her taking a certain shape. Is this the general thinking?

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Chapter 8 - Of the Darkening of Valinor

The Valar kept watch for Melkor in the north, thinking he had retreated to his old strongholds, not realizing he had instead gone far to the south, to the dark region of Avathar. There dwelt Ungoliant.

It is suggested that Ungoliant was corrupted to the service of Melkor back when he first looked down in envy upon the Kingdom of Arda, but she had since disowned him as master. She took the form of a monstrous spider; she hungered for light and hated it, sucking up what she could find and spinning it forth again in dark nets of gloom.

Melkor convinced Ungoliant to aid him in his revenge upon the Valar; they set out for Aman cloaked in the darkness of Ungoliant, which was as a void.

It was a time of festival in Valinor, both for the gathering of the fruits and to heal the evil that had arisen among the Noldor. The Vanyar, Noldor, Valar and Maiar were gathered upon Taniquetil, except for Finwë and the sons of Fëanor, who would not come among the Noldor while Fëanor was exiled. Fëanor himself had been summoned to the feast by Manwë. There he met Fingolfin before the throne of Manwë; they were reconciled in word, and Fingolfin offered an oath of loyalty to Fëanor.

The lights of the two trees were mingled as Fëanor and Fingolfin stood before Manwë, but in this very hour Melkor and Ungoliant came to Ezellohar. They sprang upon the mound; Melkor smote each Tree to the core with his spear, their sap poured forth on the ground and Ungoliant sucked it up, and then sucked from the wounds of the Trees. Her poison went into their tissues, and they died. She then emptied the Wells of Varda and swelled to a shape so vast and hideious that Melkor was afraid.

So the great darkness fell upon Valinor. In that hour was made a Darkness that was more than loss of light; it seemed a thing with a being of its own because it was made by malice out of Light, and it had power to enter the heart and mind and strangle the will. Manwë perceived this Darkness beyond dark moving northward, and he knew that Melkor had come and gone.

Oromë rode forth in pursuit with his host, but the Cloud of Ungoliant struck with blindness and dismay all those who approached, and Melkor and Ungoliant escaped.


Avathar - Abode of Ungoliant; narrow region, dark and unexplored, south of the Bay of Eldamar beneath the eastern feet of the Pelóri. There, beneath the sheer walls of the mountains and the cold dark sea, the shadows were deepest and thickest in the world.

Ungoliant - It was said that before she descended from the darkness that lies about Arda, Melkor corrupted her to his service; she took the form of a monstrous spider. She had disowned her Master, desiring to be mistress of her own lust, taking all things to herself to feed her emptiness. She hungered for light and hated it.

[axordil]

Ungoliant, you know, was actually Tom Bombadil's first wife. He tossed her over for the first cute little River-Spirit that crossed his path, though, the day she turned two ages old.

[Cerin]

[axordil]

C'mon, Goldberry is an obvious trophy wife! She hangs out around the house all day barefoot!

[Cerin]

Goldberry and Tom are soul mates!


*hurls custard pie in Ax's direction*

[axordil]

(takes bite from pie as it flies wide to the right)

Soul mates...riiiiiiight. If they were soulmates, why did he have to more or less abduct her in TB Goes a'Courtin?

[Cerin]

I haven't read TB Goes a 'Courtin', but I'm not taking your word on that abduction. *sniff*

[axordil]

Oh wait, that was Boating, not Courting. Well, you know, with river-daughers, it's more or less the same.

[truehobbit]

Tolkien does give us a rather strange image of how to win a wife in the Bombadil poem, it must be admitted.
I've always just told myself that the poem really has nothing to do with Tom and Goldberry of LOTR
(Although, even though eventually he just grabs her, don't forget that first she had also teased him. Womanly wiles to get his attention, maybe? )

(I think it's in the first poem, though, not the "boating"-one. )

[Rowanberry]

If somebody, sometime in the future, will get the rights to make a movie or TV series of the Silmarillion, the Trees and their destruction will certainly be one of the hardest things to realize. In the book, it works perfectly; but in a totally different medium like film it would very easily just turn cheesy.