How did The Silmarillion change your view of LotR?

[vison]

So you turn your 40 mile commute into an 80 mile commute? Am I reading that right? Or is it a 10 miles there and 10 miles back twice a day?

We used to have a couple working for us who went home for lunch every day. They lived 12 miles away and by the time they got home they had maybe 10 minutes - which was probably enough for their purpose. But they whined constantly about the price of gas. It was none of my business, but they could have cut their fuel bill in half by bringing a lunch to work.

[Old_Tom_Bombadil]

I've read the Sil a half dozen times and it never gets any easier.

Have you tried studying the family trees in the back of the book? I found that understanding how the various characters are related helps greatly with the appreciation of the stories.

I received a copy of The Silmarillion on my 16th birthday in 1977, the year it was first published. I recall greatly anticipating its publication, but was disappointed that it was not like LOTR. I never read it in its entirety until years later after a revised edition was available in paperback, and after I'd read Unfinished Tales a few times. After three times through it all started to click.

[Maria]

[OT]
You were right the first time, vison. 80 miles per day. We used to eat lunch in town more before I found out I needed to eat gluten free- now we run home for lunch every day. We *could* bring a lunch, but my husband really hates that for some unknowable reason- so we make the trek home every day. It's not that different from springtime, when we have to come home at lunch every day to check if the pregnant animals were doing OK or not.

It gives us a good, long break in the middle of the work day, where we can listen to our story instead of thinking about work. Even if we brought our lunch, we'd probably sit in the car eating it, just so we could listen to the story at the same time.

We have a Honda Civic Hybrid, by the way. Gas consumption isn't really all that bad. And the route is mostly interstate. One way only takes 15 minutes.

[/OT]

[vison]

No matter how little fuel your car uses, doubling the commute doubles fuel consumption, doubles the wear and tear on the car, and doubles your risk of being in an accident. As well, you spend a half hour in a car that you don't need to, and, audio book or not, I'd sooner stab myself in the eye.

Different strokes for different folks.

[Griffon64]

I mostly take my lunch to work, even though my commute is tiny. ( 6 miles ) When I ride my bicycle to work, I'm not doubling all that work in a day! and when I drive, I don't want to use twice the gas and then eat with an eye on the clock. Blame a frugal upbringing! I don't mind eating at work, so it works for me. In fact, I almost prefer to because I can have a half hour lunch and come home from work earlier than if I drove home for lunch. I hardly ever buy lunch at work, either, because that would cost more than just driving home! But that's just me, and whatever works for others is fine by me.

As far as Silmarillion goes, I've read it a few times. ( I have yet to quite finish, though! ) I found the increased depth it brought to LOTR's world to be something I liked. I also found it interesting to see how the great big fraught-with-danger-and-doom story of LOTR was but a half page or some such in Sil. It gave a very interesting perspective.

[Holbytla]

I have a first edition hard back Sil around somewhere.
I read it in its entirety a week after it was published. I have read it a dozen times or more likely 20 since then.

It can be a chore, as it isn't a completed narrative.
Though for people intrigued by the "roots LOTR threw down", it can be a rewarding (if somewhat annoying and inconsistent) understanding of ME at large.

[axordil]

Interesting question, and one I've spent some years formulating an answer to, or rather, one whose answer has changed over the years.

The upshot is, as others have noted, that the Levitican glory of the Sil makes LOTR look much more like the fully fleshed out modern psychological novel it is.

[Elentári]

Same for me, in terms of the bigger picture. Most people having read LotR hunger for more of M-e, so you naturally dive into UF and the SIL hopiing for more of the same. I remember it took me a couple of attempts to get through the SIL and then it sat on the shelf for years. I read CoH when it was published, which helped me understand that difficult part better. It was not until my friends and I undertook the SIL scriptwriting project that I actually went back to the book and started to work through it very closely, in essence filling in the gaps, fleshing out the narrative....and found I gained a deeper appreciation and understanding of the characters.

If I had to name one thing I "got" from the SIL it would be an understanding of the sadness of the Elves in LotR.

[Rowanberry]

When I reread the LOTR for the first time after reading the Sil, my eyes were opened to what a long and complex history the world of the story actually had. Just as an example, when Treebeard sang his song about the lands where he used to walk but which don't exist any longer, I knew what and where those places had been, what had happened there, etc. It sure added depth to the story.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Well said, Rowan.

[CosmicBob]

I read LOTR first, back before The Silmarillion was published. I was young and didn't fully appreciate the LOTR anyway. I bought The Silmarillion when it came out (US edition). And devoured it. I was somewhat disappointed that my favorite elves weren't really there (Galadriel was barely mentioned), I did find new characters to root for and like. I liked the way it was sort of just a history in some parts, but I did miss the really deep narrative that LOTR had. It filled in a lot of the historical details in LOTR.

But then every time after when I have read LOTR I find something new. And many times it's because of what was in the Silmarillion (or in HoME). I think that the Silmarillion has added extra depth to my enjoyment of LOTR. Without taking away the "unexplained vistas".

I am about to re-read "Athrabeth" from Moroth's Ring (thanks to just finishing "Arda Recontructed"). And then I plan to re-read The Silmarillion, but I will be reading the 2nd edition for the first time.

As for audio books, I have never heard the Silmarillion audio book, but I did listen to the entire LOTR audio book when I had a hideous commute a few years ago. I found it passed the time very well. The best audio book was Christopher Lee's reading of the Children Of Húrin. I plan to listen to that again soon. And by "best", I mean best of any audio book I've ever heard, Tolkien or otherwise.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

But then every time after when I have read LOTR I find something new. And many times it's because of what was in the Silmarillion (or in HoME). I think that the Silmarillion has added extra depth to my enjoyment of LOTR. Without taking away the "unexplained vistas".

I think this is an excellent observation, and I share that feeling. I can understand why Tolkien was worried about that, but honestly I've never heard anyone say that they felt that there appreciation of LOTR was lessened because they read the Silmarillion.

And then I plan to re-read The Silmarillion, but I will be reading the 2nd edition for the first time.

Other than the inclusion of a large portion of Tolkien's letter to Milton Waldman describing the mythology as part of the preface to the second edition. Other changes are very minor and cosmetic.

As for audio books, I have never heard the Silmarillion audio book, but I did listen to the entire LOTR audio book when I had a hideous commute a few years ago. I found it passed the time very well. The best audio book was Christopher Lee's reading of the Children Of Húrin. I plan to listen to that again soon. And by "best", I mean best of any audio book I've ever heard, Tolkien or otherwise.

Martin Shaw's reading of The Silmarillion is also excellent. For that matter, Brian Cox's reading of Sigurd and Gudrun is also superb.

[Inanna]

When I reread the LOTR for the first time after reading the Sil, my eyes were opened to what a long and complex history the world of the story actually had. Just as an example, when Treebeard sang his song about the lands where he used to walk but which don't exist any longer, I knew what and where those places had been, what had happened there, etc. It sure added depth to the story.

Ditto. It was just wonderful to understand what Galadriel meant when she said "I will diminish, and go into the West and remain Galadriel."

As I like explanations, I am not too much into the "unexplained vistas" bit anyway (I don't dislike unexplained vistas, I just prefer explanations).

[Hachimitsu]

Hmm, this is a very interesting question.

I hadn't read any Tolkien books, before I saw the first LOTR film. I found I liked it but I was very confused.

I did some checking and somewhere I had heard that The Silmarillion was the first book in the time line, so I bought it. It was difficult to get through, but it helped me understand the LOTR film so much more. After the movies were done and I when I finally read The Hobbit and LOTR the Silmarillion helped immensely. For both the books and the films, I understood what seemed to be little moments, and realized they were big important moments.

Also seeing the elves act so immature and brash in the Sil, it helped me understand how they acted in LOTR. I really appreciated that in the extended editions of the LOTR films they put in those moments that refer back to the Sil. Also, it's nice to know the history an mythology the characters in LOTR are talking about.

I am not sure LOTR would have been as rewarding for me if I did not read the Sil first (I get confused really easily).


(It's also kind of fun out geeking my friends who were lotr fans before me, who never read the Sil, yet I know about who made the palantír and that Galadriel was around before the Sun and the Moon. *evil fangirl giggle* )

[Elentári]

Wow, that is cool, Wilma!

I find it pretty amazing that you tackled THE SILMARILLION first - especially if you found FotR confusing! I guess the majority of us probably come to the SIL after HOBBIT and LOTR, or even UT, and even then struggle with it, but as you say, doing it the chronological way allows you to gain a deeper perspective on the story within LotR from the first reading.

[Hachimitsu]

It was not easy the first time I read it, but I knew it was a posthumous publication. I really wanted to understand the movies but I didn't want to spoil myself reading the LOTR books so the Sil was the perfect candidate.

I did lend my copy of the Sil to a friend who was a hardcore LOTR fan and after 3 months she gave me back the book and said she never wanted to see it again. So I wouldn't recommend the route I took to Tolkien for everyone.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Oh my!

[Ethelwynn]

This is a great question. I've gotten both my kids reading the SIL for the first time. My son said he couldn't really get into it until he was sent to Afghanistan, and now he's 2/3 of the way through it and loving the story. Yes, both kids are serious Tolkien lovers but neither had sunk into the SIL until a few months ago.

For myself, reading the SIL changed my view of Isildur and of Elves in general. In LotR, Isildur seems pretty much a self-centered problem who sets up the trouble by not destroying the Ring. After I read about his heroism in saving a graft from the White Tree, I appreciated him as more of a whole, rounded character.

The Elves, as a people, also seem more rounded in the SIL. In LotR, they are very cerebrial, very distant, and frankly uninteresting. I want more passion in characters I care about, even if this leads to mistakes born of haste. The Elves we meet in the SIL are the kind I appreciate.

[Morwenna]

I got the Sil when it first came out, in hardback in 1977, after having been immersed in M-E for ten years. I read it straight through at least that first time, and I've dipped into it since, though I don't think I've ever re-read it all the way through. I have some favorite and some not-so-favorite parts, but overall I do appreciate knowing the background of LOTR in more detail. Still, the form of the story(ies) is so different from that of LOTR that I had and still have trouble identifying with any of the characters. The comparison with the Bible (OT) is not farfetched, because that too is more of a summary of actions and a capsulization of character. I tend to regard it now as a series of encyclopedia entries--not that I dislike encyclopedia entries! I've been known to take an hour to look something up because of side trips along the way (and that goes for the online forms too!).

I'm another one who much prefers the novelistic approach, of which LOTR is an example despite JRRT's views on character-driven works. I say LOTR is character-driven; of course one could say so is Sil--look at what those driven characters cause to happen! Puns aside, it's hard to really get into a story unless one can identify with one or more of the characters, and I just can't get involved with the Sil characters that way. I did think of LOTR as being mythological when I first read it, but what is mythological in it is really the background, exemplified by the Sil material which is hinted at or included in LOTR. But the hobbits as stand-ins for the reader are the perfect entry point for the story, whereas there is no such equivalent in the Sil. The beginning does read like the Book of Genesis, and the whole thing does read rather like the OT as a whole: a compendium of stories, legends, genealogies, and so on. The only unifying things are the tragedy of Fëanor and his sons and the heritage of Eärendil.

What I, and evidently many more readers, wanted was more about hobbits. And I for one also wanted more about the other histories of the Third Age; the appendices to LOTR, which I devoured over and over, left me very hungry for more. I was tantalized nearly beyond tolerance by the glimpses of not only hobbit history but Gondorian history and Rohirrim history and Dunlendish history and why didn't anyone repopulate Minhiriath and why don't we hear any more about those lands down the River Running with whom the Mirkwood elves traded, and so forth. I'm still hungry.

I blush to admit that, though I did buy a copy of CoH (used), I still haven't read it despite having it in the house for at least two years. I have it for completion's sake, I guess, because the short forms in Sil and UT (I've read parts of UT several times; that's another hardback I bought when it first came out) did not cause me to like any character in Túrin's story! So one day I'll probably read it, but not just yet.

I also blush to admit that I have only one volume out of HoME, and that too was used. I remember when they first started appearing, in their American plain solid-color covers, and I thought about it and figured I'd have all the time in the world. Then I stopped seeing any. Then I started seeing them again--only with fancy illustrated covers!! That totally turned me off; after all HoME is supposed to be scholarly, and they started marketing it as if it were Something New!!! And!!! Wonderful!!! If they ever come out with all the volumes in the series as the solid-colored scholarly tomes they started out to be, then I'll buy the whole set when I have the funds.

[Alatar]

Here you go Morwenna. They're available "Print on Demand" for about £40 each, or £60 for the Anthologies, or £150 for a box set of all 12 including Indices in 3 Volumes.

http://www.tolkien.co.uk/Non-Fiction/Pa ... ddle-earth


The Complete History of Middle-earth

The complete 12-book History of Middle-earth, printed in three volumes and set in a matching box.
£150


If you want to do it in instalments, this might suit better!

The History of Middle-earth Part I
A new one-volume hardback edition of the first five books in The History of Middle-earth.
£60.00

The History of Middle-earth Part II
A new one-volume edition of the four books which comprise The History of The Lord of the Rings.
£60.00

The History of Middle-earth Part III
A new one-volume edition of the final three books in The History of Middle-earth – designed to perfectly complement Parts I & II.
£42.00


Of course, you could buy them one at a time, but that would work out to £480, not including the Index!