Who were the most Important Characters in the History of ME?

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Dân o Nandor on Anduin
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Post by Dân o Nandor on Anduin »

All rectified, Finnish One. :) The years and dates I’ve given are only to illustrate the relative ‘lifespans’ of each, and ‘circas’ are used very liberally, so there may very well be other slip-ups. (And just for clarification, immortals and others who live well into the 4th Age, I've set the outer limit of their age at the year 172 - the year of Findegil's translation).

Note, the scores start to rise considerably from here on in: in fact, #1 will virtually triple #21.


#20 [349pts] Elrond Half-elven (1A 532-?: 6700yrs)
As Círdan opened the top-40, this Master bit-player fittingly opens the top-20, as well he should being the 1st to appear of the principle Ring-bearers during the War of the Ring. My guess is that if the question went out to all Tolkien fans who they think should rank 20th overall in importance, Elrond would come to more minds than any other.

#19 [378pts] Bilbo Baggins (3A 2890-?: ?yrs)
Whether his bringing the One Ring back to the Shire from the hands of Gollum was his major contribution, or his leaving it willingly for Frodo, or maybe his instigation of the written words we have in front of us, is debatable. Regardless, the character that many of us were introduced to 1st comes in a well-deserved #19.

#18 [386pts] Finrod Felagund (YT 1300-1A 465?: 2381yrs)
Apart from his leadership and Kingship among the Noldor from Valinor to Nargothrond - significant enough, being the senior of the House of Finarfin in Middle-earth - he was 1st to encounter Man, whom he instructed; he bestowed the Ring of his father from Valinor upon Barahir, an heirloom lasting beyond Aragorn; he joined Beren on his Quest for the Silmaril, saving him heroically; and was talented, powerful, and wise beyond measure.

#17 [399pts] Saruman the White (?-3A 3019: 54,900yrs?)
Another example of what could have been. Though the Brown Wizard only managed to rank 144th; and the Blue Wizards barely crack the top-800; the Grey-come-White Wizard will show just where Saruman should have been. However, Curunir's overall impact and legacy could probably inspire a lively debate.

#16 [413pts] Beren Erchamion (1A 432-504: 72yrs)
With Lúthien’s help, this vegetarian successfully completes his Quest to wrest a Silmaril from Morgoth, and bring it to Thingol to win the hand of his daughter: merely the tip of the iceberg of what makes this hero, whom the Valar deemed worthy of 2 deaths, so special. Plus he's inscribed on Tolkien's grave!

#15 [421pts] Eärendil the Mariner (1A 503-?: 6720yrs)
The 1st character ever, the ultimate hero of the Saga of the Jewels, and one that we can still see in the night sky, Eärendil should probably have cracked the top-10 right beside Frodo, but the Unwins failed to appreciate his story! ;)

#14 [439pts] Galadriel (YT 1362-?: 8546yrs)
She lives during the Years of the Trees in Valinor, knowing Fëanor, Aulë, and Morgoth well; and the 1st Age of the Sun in Doriath, knowing Thingol, Melian, and Lúthien well; and the 2nd Age, knowing Celebrimbor, Gil-galad, and Sauron/Annatar well; and the 3rd Age, knowing Elrond, Elessar, and Gandalf well. In fact one might have to go down the list to Ar-Pharazôn at #50 to isolate a person that she probably did not know or meet or have contemporary events force some form of interaction. The departing ship of the Ring-bearers was more her ship than anyone’s, as last survivor of the Noldor revolt, fulfilling events long before there were Rings. She leaves the lands where her granddaughter was Queen; returning to the lands where her father was still King of the 2nd Kindred, her grandfather still King of the 3rd Kindred, and her grandmother still sister of the King of all Elves!

#13 [453pts] Witch-king of Angmar (?yrs)
Another fitting entry, at the # representing phobias and ill-luck, this former Man places this high for a few functional reasons, not the least of which is the number of monikers that he is listed under. To fully justify this placing however, keep in mind that Evil does play a premium in Tolkien’s world; and to further it if you will, apply the Harry Turtledove theory that the Lord of the Nazgûl was appropriately set to be the next Dark Lord in the 4th Age, the Age of Men. (Tolkien’s textual backflips regarding his death say that he is merely reduced to impotency, and will not be seen again in that Age of the world; further, his New Shadow 4th Age tale re-introduces an ancient evil, albeit cryptically named Herumor. Which links my own pet theory that the Black Captain was also the Black Númenorean – as 3 Nazgûl were – named Herumor conquerer of Harad, as well as the Númenórean Captain of the Black Ship in Tal-Elmar. But of course all this of course has no bearing :) ). Suffice it to say that a Nazgûl needed to appear, just as a Balrog does, in the top-100 - LotR again promoting one over the other.

#12 [457pts] Tom Bombadil (c.55,100?yrs)
Like Mandos, he should probably be either #1000, or top-3. But the literature devoted to the most popular Tolkien FAQ of all brings him in here - his importance certainly being a matter of debate.

#11 [497pts] Lúthien Tinúviel (YT 1200-1A 504: 3378yrs)
Like husband Beren, I can only scrape the surface here: in this case, pointing out that the blood of Lúthien is hinted at as the source of the long-lifespans and healing-powers of her line, which extends through Númenor and Gondor, beyond King Elessar. Of course, Melian is ultimately the source, but then there’s the whole actual-confronting-and-enchanting-Morgoth thing with Lúthien: the highest ranking woman, with beauty unparalleled indeed.

Next, #10 will chime in with 561pts, a full 104pts ahead of #12 – truly the cream of the crop - not even remote anomalies from here on in (if Merry, Pippin, and the Witch-king even were). Well, then again, maybe one needs a little justification to the majority of Tolkien fans! ;)
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I am shocked and appalled that neither Galadriel nor Lúthien made the top ten! I demand a recount! This is sexism of the highest order.

;)

It also means that I'm not sure who the tenth member of the top ten is.

Hmmmm? We have Frodo, Sam, Aragorn, Gandalf, Fëanor, Túrin, Morgoth, Sauron, and Gollum.

Is it Thingol? Wow, I would find that very hard to justify. But I can't think of anyone else that it might be (and I can't imagine that he wouldn't be in the top 100, either). Wow, I'm flabbergasted that Thingol would be higher than Galadriel and Lúthien.

And there is no way that the Witch-King can be higher than Galadriel. That's ludicrous.

;)
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Post by Primula Baggins »

dna, I suggest posting the top ten and ducking out until Voronwë is done throwing crockery. ;)
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Post by Dân o Nandor on Anduin »

I’ve timed this in fact, O Drowning One, according to Voronwë’s upcoming vacation, so he can find peace one way or another just after the top-10 is revealed! Though when he gets back he’ll immediately have to deal with the Watcher-in-the-Water at #118, and Uinen at #119!

Now, for the top-10: I’ll dispense completely with my own summaries, because frankly these characters deserve more than my shallow observations; instead I’ll focus on the 10 numerical factors that have come into play, and let the chips fall.

I’ll reveal them in 4 installments, each coincidentally being blocks of characters of the same race…


The Top-10, Part I – The Hobbit Block, or Three’s A Crowd

#10 [561pts] Gollum (3A c.2430-3019: c.590yrs)
Yes, while Déagol comes in 147th, Sméagol had a little more ambition, I guess, and was crucial in so many ways to the Story of the end of the 3rd Age. The most contributing factor to Gollum’s score was Drout’s Encyclopedia, 110pts – in fact Gollum was the highest scoring Drout character. Maybe it was because of the scholarly, analytical approach to the entries, especially as it was Gergely Nagy that penned it. Here’s his concluding paragraph: “Gollum’s figure is perhaps one of the most complex ones in The Lord of the Rings, and his relationships to other characters, most notably to Frodo and Sam, serve to contextualize the problem of his doubleness… The motivations discernible behind his actions point him out effectively as a central point in Tolkien’s examination of morality and responsibility and the idea of service and betrayal, and supply a character whose story can nearly become tragic for the readers”. It was the troika of Halflings that was necessary to destroy the Ring, and Gollum was… critical. What Tolkien in effect is saying about unfortunate members of society, I’ll leave to greater minds than mine.

#9 [569pts] Samwise Gamgee (3A 2980-?: ?yrs)
And, while the Gaffer comes in 153rd, his son seemed to be able to broaden his horizons a little more. Sam’s highest score, guess what, comes from this thread: I gave 20pts to each vote, and only Fëanor scored higher than Sam in the Hall-of-Fire column. But coming in 2nd of Sam's scores, 114pts, was Tyler’s Companion, from which I’ll quote: “There are few examples of loyalty, devotion and faithfulness recorded in the annals of the 3rd Age to equal those displayed by the illustrious Hobbit Samwise Gamgee, servant and steadfast companion of Frodo Baggins and honourable member of the Fellowship of the Ring. Throughout the many trials and hardships endured without complaint at his master’s side, his purpose never faltered – to remain with Frodo wherever he might go, even to Mordor. And in the end he was rewarded richly: with honour, and many descendants, and a long life; and with a journey across the Sea at the end of it.” To add a personal comment, when Priscilla Tolkien, during her question period in Birmingham ’05, was asked who her favourite character was, she said simply “well, I’ve always had a soft spot in my heart for Sam”.

#8 [574pts] Frodo Baggins (3A 2968-?: ?yrs)
Frodo’s parents don’t score reasonably well. Bilbo, of course, does. Like Sam, Frodo's highest score is attributed to this thread, though Drout’s Encyclopedia comes in 2nd at 106pts, and from it, courtesy of Michael N. Stanton, I’ll quote: “When we consider Frodo’s character – the moral structure of his being – we see that his combination of courage, selflessness, and fidelity (to his friends, to his word) make him the ideal bearer and destroyer of the Ring. He is in that regard wholly admirable. When we consider Frodo as a character, an inhabitant of the story, he is not an interesting chap. He is thoughtful and articulate and perceptive, but he is not colorful or highly individualized. He does not have the sturdy down-rightness of a Sam or the antic disposition of a Merry or a Pippin, far less the psychopathology of a Gollum. The maxim that good is less interesting than evil (literally at least) is borne out by Frodo”. That may very well be the case, but I’ll admit, in order to tweak the arrangement of these 3 Hobbits, I had to minimally use my compilation of favourite-Tolkien-character-website-lists (Sam 2nd to Gandalf with 34pts, Frodo with 26, and Gollum with 15), and thus feel good and justified about incorporating it as one of the 10 factors. C'mon, though fittingly separated by only 13pts, Frodo was definitely most important of the 3!

Next: a block of one of the 2 Children of Ilúvatar. Oooh, which one, I wonder? :)
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Post by rwhen »

What are you trying to do to me here...geesh. I am gutted waiting for the posts of the last seven already!! ;)

*passes oxygen to Voronwë*
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Breathes deeply. Hugs rwhen in thanks.

dna, in case I wasn't clear, I am only here essentially through tomorrow (I'm leaving VERY early Friday morning, and probably won't check the board before I go). So please don't wait beyond that to post the final names.
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Post by Dân o Nandor on Anduin »

Ahh, the anticipation! :P Sorry, I had to actually do some work yesterday for a change - I will get the final 2 posts in by this evening, I promise. :)

Again, let me remind you, this is all based on the accumulation of points using objective factors. I merely tweaked it by deciding how much to award each factor, and in so doing brought about what I thought was the best result. However, for the most part, the chips fell where they did. None of the factors specifically address the question of importance. But I hope the results generally capture that essence. This can possibly be further debated if I list the next 900, and break down the characters according to races or stations. Possibly… :help: :)

The Top Ten, Part II – The Elvish Block, or the Big Two Towers

#7 [574pts] Fëanor (YT 1170-1A 1: 3162yrs)
As mentioned, this very thread provided the most points for Fëanor; and 2nd was the HoMe index. The Encyclopedias didn’t provide incredibly high scores because his life was shorter, generally spent in isolation, and largely driven by single-purpose. His words and actions – his creations, his Oath, and leading the Noldor back to Middle-earth - are no doubt some of the most critical of all the legendarium. #7 is not too shabby though. But I suspect that his being surpassed by the next entry is going to be a source of difficulty to some… which I’m going to defend ;) . If I could have tweaked things further to get Fëanor ahead of Thingol, I would have, but that would have been extremely difficult, and would have skewered other things much more.

#6 [591pts] Thingol (YT c.1080-1A 503: c.4525yrs)
Admitting what I just said, I do believe that Thingol is one of the 2 most important Elves, but doesn’t get acknowledged as much as Fëanor and the Noldor. His 3 lowest scores – appearances in Letters, my compilation of favourite characters, and this thread (scoring 0!?) - as well as Voronwë’s own neglecting him, tend to prove this. But consider that he was one of the 3 ambassadors to Valinor, along with Fëanor’s father, and the length of his Kingship was almost equal to that of Finwë, Fëanor, Fingolfin, Fingon, and Turgon combined. His words and actions – from staying behind in Middle-earth, and leading a significant portion of his people; to marrying a Maia and together creating Doriath, not to mention Lúthien; to receiving the acknowledgement of High-kingship of all the Eldar of Middle-earth from Fingolfin; to promoting the use of Sindarin over Quenya; to forcing Beren on his Quest of the Silmaril; and finally to causing the collapse of his Realm and the friction between Dwarves and the Sindar ever after - display the very same destructive pride as Fëanor. He was truly the equivalent to Middle-earth and the Sindar of what Fëanor was to Aman and the Noldor. And if Galadriel was Fëanor redeemed, Celeborn was Thingol redeemed, and the 2 pairs represent the personification of the 2 languages that were central to the legendarium from the beginning. And his highest score was the HoMe index, tied with Túrin (who had many versions of a story to himself), 2nd only to Morgoth, whose HoMe-score was the highest # of the spreadsheet. So Elwë/Thingol indeed cuts quite a swath across the whole of Tolkien's world. Do I hear any nay-sayers?

Now, to justify why the 2 foremost Men will rank ahead of the 2 foremost Elves: well, in Tolkien’s world Men outlive the Elves don’t they? 8)
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

So the two dark lords are both in the top five! That says something. What, I don't know, but it definitely says something.
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Post by N.E. Brigand »

dna wrote:#7 [574pts] Fëanor ... The Encyclopedias didn’t provide incredibly high scores because his life was shorter, generally spent in isolation, and largely driven by single-purpose.
At least concerning Drout's encyclopedia, the treatment of Fëanor has been questioned:
I believe Fëanor deserves the compliment of a close critical analysis, which [the encyclopedia article] tends to avoid in favor of details of story biography. For one thing, Fëanor represents perhaps at its highest point Tolkien's tendency to make the Elves into supermen. Fëanor is a veritable superman among supermen. To what degree then is he believable as a character for, let's face it, real-world human readers? The answer comes from the few times we get to meet him as expressed through dialogue: e.g., his debate with Melkor, with his half-brother, his defiance of the Valar, his incitement of the Noldor. Fëanor's character is made or broken by these scenes, reader by reader, critic by critic.
Is he a hero, or a villain - a scion of Aulë, or of Melkor? This tension that Fëanor inaugurates, between making and possessing, resounds through the rest of the legendarium.
As for:
dna wrote:#6 [591 pts] Thingol ... His 3 lowest scores – appearances in Letters ... But consider that he was one of the 3 ambassadors to Valinor, along with Fëanor’s father, and the length of his Kingship was almost equal to that of Finwë, Fëanor, Fingolfin, Fingon, and Turgon combined.
He was also the tallest elf, no? That's gotta count for something. It's curious that the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia entry on Thingol also notes his scarcity in The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien.
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Post by Dân o Nandor on Anduin »

Thanks for those notes, NEB! :)

The Top Ten, Part III – The Mannish Block, or The King and I

#5 [639pts] Elessar, 1st King of the Reunited Realm (3A 2931-4A 120: 210yrs)
Aragorn’s top 4 scores come from the Encyclopedia of Arda, Wikipedia, Foster’s Guide, and Drout’s Encyclopedia respectively. Next is HoMe (though the HoLotR volumes were not even used – solving the dilemma of whether to include Trotter as an additional character, or included in Aragorn's), and he also scored 3rd in my compilation of favourite characters. So 5th in importance can probably be accepted by most. On the other hand…

#4 [720pts] Túrin Turambar (1A 464-499: 35yrs)
Preposterous! Ridiculous! Insane! He was only important to himself, and maybe a few others, for so long as they could endure him, or try to kill him! Granted this is an anomaly, his top scores coming respectively from HoMe (as mentioned, 2nd highest score of the spreadsheet), Tyler’s Companion, Wikipedia, and Foster’s Guide, all admittedly enhanced by his many monikers; offset however by a 0 in this thread, a 1 in Letters, and a very low score in my website compilation. In fact nobody takes up more Wikipedia space than Túrin, just edging Aragorn. I’ll say it here, but one thing that may in fact justify such a lofty rank is the 2nd Prophecy of Mandos. That Túrin will slay Morgoth to renew the World in the end is a pretty important event. So let’s not be too hasty in writing him off as a very integral person in the history of the Story, not to mention the Story itself. Voronwë, I believe you said his tale almost reads like Tolkien’s autobiography. He, unlike Aragorn, was not a Dúnadan. He represents, like the 2 Elves, a Man with all the flaws.

Next, finally, the Ainur Block… but what order?
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Post by Primula Baggins »

Yes, height should have been figured in. Certainly it was important to Tolkien. :P

However, it should be height relative to kind. That would boost Merry and Pippin.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I don't think Túrin is an anomoly at all. There is little question in my mind that he was one of the most important characters in Middle-earth. I think his placement is just about right.
Next, finally, the Ainur Block… but what order?
I'm going to guess:

3. Olórin (Gandalf)
2. Mairon (Sauron)
1. Melkor (Morgoth)

But really it could be any order.
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Post by Dân o Nandor on Anduin »

Almost right on the Ainur. And I appreciate the vote of confidence on Túrin’s place. I didn’t expect that. You can see below, in my own conjectured list prepared before the spreadsheet, I had him far down (but I did have 2 women in the top-10! ;) ).

The Top Ten, Part IV – The Ainur Block, or the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

#3 [753pts] Gandalf (c.55,100yrs)
Olórin has the distinction of scoring the highest of all characters in his lowest category – 42pts (#1 there) for his mentions in Letters – but scoring only 109pts in his highest category, Tyler’s Companion, which is the lowest high-score of all the top-10 characters. Thus Gandalf is consistently high-ish across the board. He even got 5 votes (100pts) from this thread, even though Maiar were excluded; and was #1 (46pts) on my compilation of favourites – making those 2 categories seem necessary, once again, to make sure he scored above Túrin. But no chance to reach the Dark Lords, alas!

#2 [883pts] Morgoth (Y1-1A 590: c.48,500yrs)
Melkor more than doubles his lieutenant’s score in the HoMe index (highest score of the spreadsheet), and edges him in Drout’s Encyclopedia, but all other scores between the 2 belong to the junior partner. I think that Morgoth is definitely the 2nd most important character… of course I also think that Ilúvatar should be 1st, and not 2 Dark Lords #’s 1 & 2. But this brings us back to Evil having a premium of causation in Tolkien’s world – it being a Fallen World, after all, according to Tolkien’s faith!

#1 [944pts] Sauron (Y1-3A 3019: c.54,950yrs)
So, #1 belongs to the Nameless One, who has more names than anyone, including… the Lord of the Rings! However, he only scored 1st in 3 categories, Foster, Tyler, and Day; but was 3rd on Wikipedia, behind the 2 Men above; was 4th in the Encyclopedia of Arda, behind Bombadil, the Witch-king, and Aragorn; 5th in HoMe, behind Morgoth, Thingol, Túrin, and Felagund; 5th in Letters, behind Gandalf, Frodo, Sam, and Gollum; tied for 6th with 6 others in the Hall-of-Fire, behind Fëanor, Sam, Frodo, Gandalf, and Gollum; was behind 16 characters, including Goldberry, in Drout’s Encyclopedia (of course his entry was written by Jared Lobdell); and only did rather poorly in my website compilation of favourite characters, placing 31st. But he was greater in the 2nd Age than Morgoth was in the 1st, according to Tolkien. And he was the Dark Lord - the principle mover and shaker of events – for 2 Ages of the World, one of which saw the World become Round, largely due to his instigation.

Hope this was at least entertaining, and worthy of some further thought. :)

Btw, here’s how my own list was shaping up in answer to the question of this thread, before I started on the spreadsheet:

1. Ilúvatar
2. MORGOTH
3. SAURON
4. Fëanor
5. MANWË
6. ULMO
7. AULË
8. VARDA (f)
9. YAVANNA (f)
10. GANDALF
11. Eärendil
12. Húrin Thalion
13. Ar-Pharazôn
14. Thingol
15. Frodo Baggins
16. Lúthien Tinúviel (f)
17. Gollum
18. Finwë
19. Míriel Serindë (f)
20. Beren Erchamion
21. MANDOS
22. Samwise Gamgee
23. Aragorn
24. Galadriel (f)
25. Celebrimbor
26. MELIAN (f)
27. Bilbo Baggins
28. Tuor
29. Ingwë
30. OROMË
31. Elrond
32. Turgon
33. Gimli Elf-friend
34. NIENNA (f)
35. Túrin Turambar
36. TULKAS
37. EONWË
38. Fingolfin
39. Maedhros
40. Elros Tar-Minyatur
41. Isildur
42. Elendil
43. Finrod
44. Fingon
45. TREEBEARD
46. LÓRIEN
47. Círdan
48. GLAURUNG
49. Dúrin the Deathless
50. UNGOLIANT (f)
51. Gil-galad
52. Eorl the Young
53. SARUMAN
54. Glorfindel
55. Olwë
56. OSSË
57. Rúmil
58. THORONDOR
59. Théoden Ednew
60. Telchar

I might have to rethink that list now! Feel free to chime in with your own re-thought Top-10 or 20 list, given the skeleton provided by the spreadsheet results.

I might just list #'s 100-1000, when I get around to it... 8)
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Post by rwhen »

Have a great trip to Africa Oh Shiny One...come back safe and take piccies if you dare. ;)

Thanks for the great count down Mr. Genetically Superior one. I was not surprised at the top three. All make perfect sense to me and your reasoning behind them all also is telling.

How long did this take you?

Well done.... :bow:
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Thanks, rwhen. I will defintely try to bring back some good pics.

dna, great job. Obviously there is a lot of room for debate about the results, not about the effort you put in. Thanks so much for sharing it with us. I'll look forward to seeing the expanded list (with circles and arrows, and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining ... oh wait, I started channelling Arlo Guthrie there).

One quick correction, however. Tolkien didn't exactly say that Sauron was more powerful in the second age than Morgoth was in the first age. What he said was:
Sauron was 'greater', effectively, in the Second Age than Morgoth at the end of the First. Why? Because, though he was far smaller by natural stature, he had not yet fallen so low. Eventually he also squandered his power (of being) in the endeavour to gain control of others. But he was not obliged to expend so much of himself. To gain domination over Arda, Morgoth had let most of his being pass into the physical constituents of the Earth - hence all things that were born on Earth and lived on and by it, beasts or plants or incarnate spirits, were liable to be 'stained'.
So even though Sauron was "greater" in the Second Age than Morgoth was at the end of the First Age (not throughout the first age), I wouldn't say that he was more powerful. It's just that Morgoth's power was so difuse at this point, influencing all that went on (including Sauron's own spirit). Thus, I would argue that Morgoth was the most important character in the history of Middle-earth. Of course, it can be argued (as I have done) that Morgoth, as Eru's creation, was simply doing Eru's will in the long run. But to my thinking Eru's presence in the Tale is too remote for Him to be the most important character (even if he is ultimately the most important, which really cannot be denied).[/quote]
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Dân o Nandor on Anduin
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Post by Dân o Nandor on Anduin »

He is now "greater" and not "more powerful", but still #1 ;)

Thanks Faithful One, and thanks rwhen. I'll let you know how long it took me when I'm done. :shock: The top-500 are done, but I've still got to factor in Wikipedia and Letters to the 2nd 500. And no, there'll be no commentary the rest of the way, just lists.

Have a great trip over in the Great Lands, Voronwë! I have faith that in some remote place, at some obscure time, it'll hit you... Thingol does belong in the top-10! :)

And all right, a little bit more before you go, since your namesake appears at #109... (Galdor ironically attained 100pts, and #1000 will surely have only 1pt - so I won't give pts anymore).

101. Galdor the Tall father of Húrin
102. Bëor the Old
103. Brandir the Lame
104. OSSË
105. Mîm the Petty-dwarf
106. Curufin the Crafty 5th son of Fëanor
107. Lórien
108. Thrain II King of Durin’s Folk
109. Voronwë the Steadfast of Gondolin
110. Amandil last Lord of Andúnië
111. Anárion 2nd King of Gondor
112. Dain II Ironfoot
113. Eärnur 33rd King of Gondor
114. Imrahil 21st Prince of Dol Amroth
115. EONWË
116. Durin I the Deathless
117. Daeron the Minstrel of Doriath
118. THE WATCHER-IN-THE-WATER
119. UINEN (f)
120. Angrod 2nd son of Finarfin
121. Eldacar 21st King of Gondor
122. GWAIHIR
123. Helm Hammerhand 9th King of Rohan
124. Denethor son of Lenwë
125. Tar-Míriel Queen of Númenor (f)
126. Uldor the Accursed
127. Elladan son of Elrond, twin of Elrohir
128. Elrohir son of Elrond, twin of Elladan
129. Tar-Aldarion 6th King of Númenor
130. Celebrían (f)
131. Eärnil II 32nd King of Gondor
132. OLD MAN WILLOW
133. Lobelia Sackville-Baggins (f)
134. Erendis Queen of Númenor (f)
135. Ar-Adûnakhor 19th King of Númenor
136. FELARÓF
137. ARIEN (f)
138. Aegnor 3rd son of Finarfin
139. Amroth King of Lórien
140. Saeros counsellor of Doriath
141. Bard I the Bowman King of Dale
142. Rómendacil I 8th King of Gondor
143. The Mouth of Sauron
144. RADAGAST THE BROWN
145. Castamir the Usurper 22nd King of Gondor
146. Azog the Goblin
147. Déagol the Stoor
148. Gothmog of Morgul
149. Tar-Palantír 23rd King of Númenor
150. Malbeth the Seer of Arthedain
Last edited by Dân o Nandor on Anduin on Sat Dec 01, 2007 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Hey, 109 isn't too shabby! Particularly for a character that was all but completely excised from the published Silmarillion.

(It somehow seems fitting that my last post in this thread before I leave would be about my namesake!)
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Post by Alatar »

Hey! Where's Alatar and Pallando?
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The Vinyamars on Stage! This time at Bag End
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Primula Baggins
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Post by Primula Baggins »

Try being Primula Baggins. . . .

<glug>
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Post by Holbytla »

Try being the personification of , beer, pipe weed and 2nd breakfastesss.

I love all of these top 10, 100 or 500 lists. They always bring about indignation and debate.
The Rolling Stone top 500 songs is a doozy.

Anyway...

to be pedantic Fëanor among others never entered Middle Earth.
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