Let's write a Hobbit script of our own!

[Alatar]

Well, we could always take the BBC approach where Bilbo kept interrupting and correcting the Narrator!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8INQM-uIs4

Oh and all the music should be played on Kazoo as well...

[QuackingTroll]

An unknown narrator feels very patronising, as if someone is making you watch and explaining everything that's going on for you. It also feels like a cheap way of discribing a character's thought process and emotions. Instead of subtly showing these through the actor and dialogue you get the narrator to butt-in saying things like "this made Bilbo quite angry" or "Bilbo needed to think of a way out" giving no freedom to the actor and creating unrealistic pauses. It's a trick used mostly for old animations (where subtle acting was very hard) or radio shows (where actors faces cannot be seen). It just feels like cheating to me.

[Alatar]

The unknown Narrator is only patronising if used patronisingly.

Example: The Narrator in "Edward Scissorhands" turns out to be one of the characters in the story, but you only find out at the end. The story was told in fairytale form, but the movie and action were both fantastical and real.

There's no reason an "old voice" narrating The Hobbit couldn't turn out to be the aged Bilbo telling his story to an audience of Elves in Rivendell, or children at a party. Anything is possible if handled right.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

My feeling is that we should try to make an adaptation that follows the book as closely as possible, while still being an adaptation with of course different needs for a different medium. There are elements of the narrator in the book that are patronizing, and quite aside from the differing needs of a different medium I would want to remove those elements. But there are also, in my opinion, elements of the narrator (who is most definitely not Bilbo, or Gandalf, or any of the other Middle-earth characters) that are quite appealing, and which I think could very nicely be adapted into the film medium.

But then, I'm not likely to be doing any of the actual writing, so my opinion honestly should count less than those who will be.

[ToshoftheWuffingas]

The authorial voice is very powerful in The Hobbit and the famous opening is just one example of it. The problem I see with using an out of story voice for narration, however trimmed down the adaptation makes it is that you are in fact creating another character. PJ got round it in the opening of LOTR by using Galadriel. Once a narrator's voice is identified the viewer gets a nagging question, why and how does the speaker know all this? And if the narrator never enters the story then that question is unresolved.
I am curious as to why Alatar finds narration by a character wrong in some way.
So if narration is to be used (and if you want the classic opening it has to be) then my inclination is to use the voice or voices of some of the characters. It doesn't have to be a single voice and all sorts of story telling devices can be used to make narration at points seem natural.
As to the opening, the lines can't be spoken by a hobbit. They are clearly written by a non hobbit unless some tweaks are made to them. And quite honestly they don't sound like dwarf speech either. They really do sound like Gandalf to me. That doesn't mean that any or every use of narration in the story also has to be by Gandalf.

One more observation: Tolkien uses the authorial voice to mediate between the fantastical fairy tale and the modern listener. I think to try to replicate that mediation in a screen treatment in the way The Princess Bride did so would be both unnecessary and a mistake. The Hobbit is best treated as LOTR was treated; as true history albeit with its own whimsy and humour and charm.

I reckon LOTR was a doddle compared to The Hobbit!

[Elentári]

Totally agree with Tosh...he's echoed and expanded on my thoughts most elqouently!

So that makes 4 votes for Gandalf to narrate the opening sequence and 2 against (but for a nameless narrator)

Seems straightforward....except that Al has offered to write the opening and he's against using Gandalf!

[Alatar]

I'll make a last ditch defence for using Bilbo.


The narrator can be a Hobbit, provided his audience isn't other Hobbits. If we begin with an unnamed narrator telling the tale, who is revealed at the end to be none other than Bilbo in the Hall of Fire, reading to a group of Elven children, all of this becomes moot. Elven children would know nothing of Hobbits or Hobbit holes. Also, I don't vote for keeping the entire description of hobbits etc, as that has already been done.

In fact, all we really need is:

"In a hole in the ground, there lived a Hobbit. Not a nasty dirty wet hole, nor indeed a dry bare sandy hole. It was a Hobbit hole, and that means comfort."

"This particular hobbit was very well to do and his family had lived in this hole for time out of mind. Bag End it was called, and Baggins was his name"

Enter Gandalf...

[ToshoftheWuffingas]

I'm not comfy with the idea of totting up votes to decide one way or another. I don't think storytelling works that way well. At least I wouldn't enjoy working in those conditions even though I would really love to get the opinions. To take this tiny example, even though I and others think Gandalf is the best narrator for the opening, someone can run with the idea of Bilbo or someone else and make a success of it. Opinions and criticisms give you ideas. Votes give you instructions.
I know when I did LOTR, the bits I put in to act as a surprise for the informed readers gave me the most pleasure.

[Ethelwynn]

Alatar, you sound very certain of how you would have the opening scene look. Would I be imposing if I asked you to write it up and post it? Once we see what you're thinking, the doubters may well come over to your side.

[Alatar]

I'll try! But whats in my head doesn't always translate....

[Ethelwynn]

So now this place got quiet. OK, so if Alatar is good with doing our first scene, who would like to take the second? And, along that line, do we want to consider each chapter a single scene or do we want to split some of them. There are chapters that don't have much going on and could be covered in one scene, but some have lots happening and might make for a lot of writing. I don't want to stick anybody with too much work all at once.

[QuackingTroll]

I'm not a writer, so I'll just post my opinions if that's okay. Think of me as an editor of sorts

[Ethelwynn]

Hey, we need editors. Editors are people too.

[Ethelwynn]

Anybody still out there? Hello?

[Alatar]

Still here! Show finishes tonight so I should have some time over the weekend to make a start.

[QuackingTroll]

After the introduction of Bilbo and Gandalf (hopefully keeping in the 'good morning' banter) how do we go about making the dwarves turn up one by one without it becoming repetative or dragging out for too long?

[Primula Baggins]

Show the first two or three and then go to a montage?

[ToshoftheWuffingas]

Just in case anyone thinks this project is moribund, I am giving this some thought.

Montages can sometimes seem clumsy to me. I think the effectiveness of the arrivals would depend upon clever editing for the correct rhythm.

[Primula Baggins]

I probably shouldn't have posted, as I can't really participate in this other than to kibitz. But I do think the arrivals will call for clever editing if the book's funny cumulative effect is to make it into the script.

[ToshoftheWuffingas]

Hey, chewing over bones is what we do. It's what makes it fun. All ideas and opinions are useful.