Let's write a Hobbit script of our own!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I'm back! I'll be in touch privately Elen.

But in terms of your question, I don't think the narrator be Frodo and Bilbo. Why not have it be Tolkien himself, or just "narrator".

[Alatar]

I actually like the idea of this being older Bilbo. Unlike the book we won't have all the asides to the reader. Also it would tie in well with Bilbo's "Concerning Hobbits" in the FotR EE.

I dislike the idea of an unnamed omniscient Narrator, as it takes me out of the story. This is Bilbo's memoirs, and should be narrated by him, possibly to a young Frodo, or better, the Frodo in Rivendell on his way to destroy the Ring. However, this should only be seen at the end of the Movie/TV Series.

[QuackingTroll]

The problem with starting with the line "In a hole in the ground" is that it then goes on to a setting description, which is unecessary in a film as we can see the setting...

If this is not a prequel then it's fine to describe Bag End a bit, but if it is then we already know what a hobbit-hole is so it should go straight to Bilbo (for example "In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. Baggins was his name and he had lived in the neighbourhood of The Hill for time out of mind")

We could, of course pretend that we're starting the franchise from scratch and this is the first, not fourth, film?

[ToshoftheWuffingas]

I think the natural narrator for the iconic (can dialogue be iconic?) first lines is Gandalf. The references to hobbits are third person not first person. Gandalf's voice doesn't take you from the story and he was the only non Shire expert on hobbits anyway.

Hmmmm, still not made up my mind about the opening. There is much to be said for and against many choices. Thanks for the observations on the dwarf lament. You see, I know it appeals to us as enthusiasts and I know its importance it's just I fear the actual words are a little stilted. Perhaps the right melody can work. I know as a non musician I struggled to fit tunes to the LOTR songs.

*goes off to think some more*

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I dislike the idea of an unnamed omniscient Narrator, as it takes me out of the story. This is Bilbo's memoirs

In LOTR (and in the Quest for Erebor) The Hobbit is Bilbo's memoirs. But in The Hobbit itself it clearly is not. The narrator is very much a separate character, which brings a particular charm to that story. My preference would be to preserve that in an adaptation, though I suspect that viewpoint would be a minority.

But in any event, I very much agree that the iconic line should begin the adaptation, regardless of who says it.

[Elentári]

Regarding the lament, I think we will see Howard Shore come up with some "Early Music" style-melody, with the Dwarves playing on equally antiquated instruments such as shawms, harps and viols - remember the conversation Nin's friend had with John Howe about his son's interest in Early Music, and that he'd been talking to Shore about it also?

As for Gandalf being the Narrator, I think that is an excellent suggestion, and one that would work well with the inclusion of the scene with him meeting Thorin. Gandalf could perhaps do the "hole in the ground" bit, introducing Bilbo, and then backtrack, saying the story really begins "a few months earlier"

[Alatar]

I still feel the Thorin/Gandalf scene belongs later, after they are introduced to Bilbo. That's how all of us were introduced to the characters, only finding out about the "Chance meeting" long after the fact.


Here's a version of the Elegy from one of the audiobooks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFcnMSJdnvA

[ToshoftheWuffingas]

I wish I could be bold enough to have Gandalf speak to camera, taking the audience into his confidence at times. It would allow the humour and irony and authorial distance that we see in the story. But I fear it would put too many backs up.

[Ethelwynn]

Just to throw in an idea off the beaten track: How about if we opened with the Thorin/Gandalf meeting and have Thorin ask Gandalf to find the 14th member. Then show Gandalf standing outside the inn, lighting his pipe and looking toward the west (or screen left, in script speak). Our next cut is of Gandalf on the hill looking down on Hobbiton, then we shift to Bilbo smoking his pipe on his front step. Gandalf gives the opening "In a hole in the ground there lived a Hobbit" in voiceover while THE HOBBIT forms on the screen.

Just a suggestion here.

[QuackingTroll]

Another option is one that I can't get to work myself, but you take the line and place it in a different context in the dialogue.

For example, you open with Gandalf talking to Thorin saying "In a hole in the ground there lives a hobbit. A rather excitable fellow, but fierce as a dragon in a pinch". Before them heading off to Bag End. You can even include the description of the hole this way.

But like I said, I can't get this to work very well without sounding silly and forced, but maybe you guys can do better?

[Alatar]

I still can't get past the idea of a prologue. Its The Hobbit. It should start with Bilbo. Anything else can and should be handled in flashback.

[Elentári]

Which is fine...but we may then end up with too much backstory needing to be told in flashback!

Putting some of it before we meet Bilbo helps spread it more evenly and incorporate it using different cinematic devices...

[Alatar]

Yes, but the question is not how much backstory needs to be shoved in before we start the movie? The question is how best to start the movie. And the movie is The Hobbit, which leaves you either with Bilbo at Bag End, or Frodo/Bilbo reading from the Red Book.

Starting The Hobbit with Gandalf, Thorin, or anyone else just feels wrong to me.

(I bet you're glad you came here huh... )

[QuackingTroll]

Gandalf explains the journey to Beorn. We don't need to hear the tale twice so if Gandalf is narrating we can do a fade-out like he'd been talking to Beorn the whole time, not the audience.

We can have Gandalf dip in and out of narration all the way up to Beorn's house this way.

[Elentári]

Yes, but the question is not how much backstory needs to be shoved in before we start the movie? The question is how best to start the movie. And the movie is The Hobbit, which leaves you either with Bilbo at Bag End, or Frodo/Bilbo reading from the Red Book.

Starting The Hobbit with Gandalf, Thorin, or anyone else just feels wrong to me.

(I bet you're glad you came here huh... )

My point is, if we start the movie with Bilbo, as in the book, we lose the opportunity to place some backstory in "real time", chronologically speaking, and instead we would have to keep on using the flashback device. I have no objection either way, just pointing out that varying the storytelling devices is more cinematically interesting...

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Forgive me for not having paid strict attention while I was away on vacation, but has it been decided whether this will be an "enhanced" adaptation of the book including things like the White Council like Jackson et al. or doing, or an actual adaptation of the book itself? I would strongly vote for the latter.

[Elentári]

We've not had a vote on it, exactly - but I think the general feeling was that we should include the White council/assault on DG business at least...

Gandalf finding Thrain in DG, and even the coming of Smaug to Erebor is intrinsically part of the book, and Gandalf's recounting of events to the Dwarves and Bilbo in Beg End would be best served by visualizing it anyway.

[Ethelwynn]

Yes, I'm a bit over-tired and the puns are off their leash.

After spending a week or so looking at The Hobbit, I'm ready to suggest that the scenes from the book can be taken by chapters. They seem to break nicely that way, IMO. Beyond that, I've compiled my suggestions for "extra" scenes including backstory, the White Council, and what the Bad Guys are doing. This list is in no particular order, not at all complete, and open to revision, scrapping, reduction, or addition.

The Inn: Gandalf and Thorin meet. Thorin asks Gandalf to find a thief for the quest to regain the stolen treasure. Gandalf remembers Bilbo and sets off for the Shire.

Ambition: Saruman discovers Sauron’s servants searching for the Ring in the Anduin River. He conceives the plan to find the Ring himself.

The Council: The White Council meets and agrees to attack Dol Guldur.

Dol Guldur Falls: The attack is shown. Prisoners are free, the fortress is destroyed.

Discovery: Sauron finds evidence that the Ring was lost in the Anduin. He sends his birds to find it, as Orcs would be too obvious.

Seeking: Gollum emerges from his cave and sets off after “Baggins”.

Finding Things Out: Gandalf investigates Dol Guldur, discovers that the Necromancer is in fact Sauron, and receives Thrain’s map and key.

Someone to Watch Over Me: Gandalf asks the Rangers to keep a close eye on the Shire, after Bilbo returns. He is nervous but cannot figure out why.

Rebuilding: Sauron returns to Mordor and begins rebuilding his Dark Tower.

Uh-Oh!: The Goblins of the Misty Mountains march to War.

Enough!: After suffering incursions from The Necromancer’s servants, Thranduil goes/sends a messenger to ask the White Council for help. He determines that if the Council will take no action he will lead the assault himself, which he knows is probably fatal.

[Alatar]

I strongly feel there should be no mention of "the One" in the Hobbit. Apart from anything else it makes Gandalf look incompetent for not twigging that Bilbo has it for the next 61 years. Besides, this is The Hobbit, not LotR 0.5

[Ethelwynn]

OTOH, it's the same world in both The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings. The Ring is there, the search for it is moving events, and if I were sitting in the audience I would think it strange if the Ring isn't present. I don't think Gandalf looks incompetant if he doesn't see it in the Shire when everyone else, including Sauron, is looking in the Anduin. If anyone ought to know where it is, I'd think Sauron would.