Escaping the Echo Chamber

[Dave_LF]

The Dutch are supposed to be cheap too, but I've never had that one levied against me. I think most of the northwestern European national stereotypes have been half-forgotten in the US; we're all just "white" now.

[Maria]

I've had a lifelong problem with taking humor literally, and thus finding very little of it funny.

[Alatar]

[elengil]

I know I must be guilty of perpetuating some of the jokes simply because I was so unaware of the stereotypes they contained. As I said, I had never understood there to be a stereotype of Scots being stingy, and I know there have been other things that very kind and patient friends have pointed out to me that I had no idea were playing on stereotypes. I very much feel my privilege when I can be so blissfully unaware of how other people are hurt by things I don't even recognize.

[Lalaith]

OMG. I love that show!

[River]

OMG Al I needed that...

[elengil]

(can't watch till lunch but OMG I love Vicar of Dibley!! )

[Sunsilver]

Well, I cringe at that 'joke' every time.
Jews are stingy, money-grubbing, cheating, thieving money-lenders.
My son, who would - and has - given his last dollar to someone begging in the street, has been denigrated as 'such a jew'. He is a Jew. A Jew who doesn't give a shit about wealth and whose great grandparents were murdered by people who perpetuated these kinds of calumnies with purpose.
It's used in the playground by primary school kids who have no idea what a Jew is but when they meet one will have ready-made mould prepared by years of unwitting propaganda into which to fit that person.
Jews are money-grubbing
Scots are penny-pinching
Irish are stupid
Pakkies smell
N***rs are monkeys
All these are founded in the propaganda of the majority at a time of political conflict to dehumanise the minority to make them easier to kill.
Some of these denigrating stereotypes STILL kill.
It's not political correctness.

Sent from a tiny phone keyboard via Tapatalk - typos inevitable.

One of my favourite jokes involves a Scotsman, an Englishman and an Irishman, all of whom find a fly in their beer. It's an old Dave Allen joke, but that's going back to the 1970's. And yes, the Scot is stingy. He holds the fly over his beer by the wings, and demands "Spit it oot, man, spit it oot!"

A lot of Dave's stuff was definitely NOT P.C. He was Irish, and wasn't afraid to make jokes about them, either. He'd studied to be a Catholic priest, then changed his mind. The church was also a frequent target of his humour.

I'm a Christian, and mainly Irish and Scottish by ancestry, but I still found him very funny. And there's times when I ask myself, "Have we become TOO politically correct?"

I'm sure the owner of the dance school knew his business partner well enough to know he wouldn't take offence at the comment.

Impy, have been trying to find the best words to apologize for what I said above.
Those of us who aren't Jewish sometimes seriously underestimate how common and vicious anti-Semitism still is.

I'm sorry.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Speaking only for myself, I appreciate your saying that, Sunny.

Sent from my LG G6 using Tapatalk

[Impenitent]

My dear Sunny! Your apology is fully accepted with all my heart!

(((Hug)))

Sent from a tiny phone keyboard via Tapatalk - typos inevitable.

[Alatar]

Language Warning.

https://www.facebook.com/JonathanPieRep ... jk4OTkyMg/

[River]

I haven't been following the hue and cry about Louis C.K.'s new routine that closely, though my feeling is it really isn't about the jokes. It's just not quite time for him to come back yet.

That said, when I read the quotes the journalists were getting in a twist about, I did not get offended. In fact, I appreciated the humor. Black humor comes from the same place as screaming and tears: unfathomable sorrow and/or pure, unadulterated rage.

[yovargas]

I don't per-say disagree with a lot of what that guy is saying but I do think, unsurprisingly, that it is a terribly unnuanced take. I am betting that neither you, Al, nor that guy would agree that people should be fine with literally anything a person says as long as the person says "it's just a joke" afterward. I am betting that there are some things that would upset you, Al, even if they were intended as "just a joke". So where is that line for you, and why? I think that is a more useful discussion then a black and white ranting against the "comedy thought police" or whatever.

[Alatar]

To be clear, Jonathan Pie is a comedy persona, and his rants are meant to be taken with a pinch of salt, but also be challenging.

Regarding where to draw the line in comedy? I really don't know. I'm a big fan of Tommy Tiernan and he's far from politically correct, but I guess I feel like its always coming from a place of comedy rather than mean spirit. So, to take it as close to the line as I can, here's a clip of Tommy talking about Special Needs, Downs Syndrome and the Special Olympics. My nephew has DS and is an athlete in Special Olympics, so this could be very offensive to me, but its not. Cause, firstly, you know Tommy loves these kids, is an ambassador for Special Olympics, and genuinely means no harm. Secondly, cause he's just funny. And thirdly, cause there's a lot of truth hidden in the comedy, as my sister, mother of a 20 year old with DS could tell you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZMPP97uk7k

[yovargas]

Can you think of examples when you did think find something upsetting despite it being intended as a joke?

[Alatar]

Not off the top of my head. Sometimes I found jokes unfunny, or tone deaf, but that's a different problem? I'll try to recall some if I can.

[yovargas]

I may be remembering wrong but I seem to recall once you getting upset at a joke about Irish bombings, does that ring a bell?

[Alatar]

You might be referring to me thinking its inappropriate to have a drink called "An Irish Car Bomb"? But that's not really a joke as such.

[elengil]

You might be referring to me thinking its inappropriate to have a drink called "An Irish Car Bomb"? But that's not really a joke as such.

Isn't it? Do you think they were serious? Should it be taken at face value? Or was it a satirical pun? Seems it fits right into the rant you posted. Which is why I heartily disagree with said rant. Thing is, anything can be a joke to the right audience, but that doesn't make the joke okay just because someone found it funny. IMO a joke that necessarily invokes negative stereotypes to play to that stereotype is simply a bad joke. Use a stereotype to turn that stereotype on its head and that is why comedians should be funny.

Comedy is meant to give us a new way of seeing the world or a method of striking back at the negative parts of it. When you instead use the negative parts of it as a weapon against those already hurt by it in reality then it leaves the realm of comedy, no matter how 'funny' someone may choose to find it.

[Alatar]

You're assuming an awful lot there. Sometimes a joke is just a joke, not a weapon. I'm not in the camp that says nothing is inappropriate, but I do think that we risk swinging too far the other way, and if everything is offensive, then nothing is.